Record Players

[Dan B]

Define warmer. How will the waveform seen on an oscilloscope differ from what you'll see with tape or digital?

It will be noisier, it will have a smaller dynamic range, and it will be missing a bunch of low frequency information which has to be artificially reintroduced by the phono stage in the amplifier.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Doesn't mean I don't want a turntable, though, just for the ceremony. Maybe some day when there are no more toddlers in the house

 

[threebikesmcginty]

 

[simon.r]

It will be noisier, it will have a smaller dynamic range, and it will be missing a bunch of low frequency information which has to be artificially reintroduced by the phono stage in the amplifier.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

Doesn't mean I don't want a turntable, though, just for the ceremony. Maybe some day when there are no more toddlers in the house

Yes, there’s definitely something about the process of removing the record from its sleeve, whilst being careful not to touch it, perhaps wiping it with a special cloth if it looks a bit dusty, placing it on the turntable, lowering the arm onto it and hearing that initial crackle before the music comes in.

Maybe it’s even better if the record in question is one you’ve owned for 40 years and it brings back all sorts of memories every time you handle it.

 

[slowmotion]

Didn't somebody say that LP sleeves are great for rolling joints, CD cases are great for tooting coke, but MP3 downloads are a bit of a disappointment?

 

[simon.r]

Didn't somebody say that LP sleeves are great for rolling joints, CD cases are great for tooting coke, but MP3 downloads are a bit of a disappointment?

A genuine LOL moment at that

 

[raleighnut]

View: https://youtu.be/gLqB9hOkptg

 

[Profpointy]

It will be noisier, it will have a smaller dynamic range, and it will be missing a bunch of low frequency information which has to be artificially reintroduced by the phono stage in the amplifier.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization



Doesn't mean I don't want a turntable, though, just for the ceremony. Maybe some day when there are no more toddlers in the house

At the risk of being a bit geeky, you've rather missed the point of RIAA equalisation. It doesn't magic up lost lower frequencies it's just the mechanism used to avoid losing the low frequencies. A analogous (see what I did there?) argument used by the analogue pundits is to criticise digital for cuttting up the signal into samples - which again is a non-point

 

[raleighnut]

At the risk of being a bit geeky, you've rather missed the point of RIAA equalisation. It doesn't magic up lost lower frequencies it's just the mechanism used to avoid losing the low frequencies. A analogous (see what I did there?) argument used by the analogue pundits is to criticise digital for cuttting up the signal into samples - which again is a non-point

A digital format has the capability to match analogue recordings, it's just that the sampling frequency needs to be much higher to achieve that quality, Most records until the mid 80s were recorded onto tape at 15 ips, have you ever seen an open reel machine running at 15 inches per second it ain't half whipping through the machine.

 

[Profpointy]

A digital format has the capability to match analogue recordings, it's just that the sampling frequency needs to be much higher to achieve that quality, Most records until the mid 80s were recorded onto tape at 15 ips, have you ever seen an open reel machine running at 15 inches per second it ain't half whipping through the machine.

Don't think the sampling frequency needs to be much higher than CD. Higher frequenices simply can't be heard.

Edit: I should add (after googling) that a higher sampling rate can avoid other problems arising to from inadequate high frequency cut off filters ( "aliasing"), but a higher frequency response per se is of no value

 

[raleighnut]

Don't think the sampling frequency needs to be much higher than CD. Higher frequenices simply can't be heard

The sampling frequency has nothing to do with the Audio frequency, it is simply a 'snapshot' of the music at that time, the more 'snapshots' of the music the more accurate it is to the analogue signal.

CD is more like a newspaper photograph whereas Analogue is the full picture.

 

[Profpointy]

The sampling frequency has nothing to do with the Audio frequency, it is simply a 'snapshot' of the music at that time, the more 'snapshots' of the music the more accurate it is to the analogue signal.

CD is more like a newspaper photograph whereas Analogue is the full picture.

Umm, the sampling rate has everything to do with the highest frequency reproduced. eg analogue telephones had around 3.8kHz top end frequency, which is sampled adequatly by 8kHz sample rate. 44kHz sampling of CDs is fine for CD's 20kHz highest frequency. A little over double the highest desired frequency is your required sample rate.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

But what is "warmer"?

 

[Profpointy]

But what is "warmer"?

It's "valve sound".... innit !

☺

 

[raleighnut]

Umm, the sampling rate has everything to do with the highest frequency reproduced. eg analogue telephones had around 3.8kHz top end frequency, which is sampled adequatly by 8kHz sample rate. 44kHz sampling of CDs is fine for CD's 20kHz highest frequency. A little over double the highest desired frequency is your required sample rate.

That's what the developers of CD said, shame they were wrong so SACD was invented with a higher sampling rate. Still doesn't come close to top flight Analogue kit though.

Unfortunately 'top flight' Analogue kit doesn't come cheap so for the average (low cost) consumer CD does sound better than a £50 (if that) turntable supplied with a 'system'.

 

[raleighnut]

But what is "warmer"?

Less 'clinical', a bit like the difference between a 'keyboard' and a Bechstein