RLJ, why do I bother...

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Road Fiddler

New Member
Tetedelacourse said:
RLJing only directly affects the safety of the RLJer. Their choice. The only way it might affect another cyclist as I see it, is if you as a cyclist feel it damages the image of cycling and you would like others to see you as part of that image.

This sounds like the sort of thing said by someone who is not taking responsibility for there actions. Ok you my be an adult of sound mind and you are probably capable of judging the conditions and probable dangers by acting in a given way, for instance RLJ.

But, what happens when you are approaching a junction which you pass everyday, you know the light sequence and you plow through without regard and there is someone, possibly a preteen riding to school, who is following you and decides to follow you through just because if its safe for you so it must be safe for him and he is taken out. Would you take responsibility for your actions then?

The way it affects other cyclists is by encouraging them to take silly risks themselves and the younger the cyclist the less developed there judgement, road sense and there self preservation instinct. You are putting per-pressure on them to follow how ever unintentional it is.
 

frog

Guest
And I'm not convinced it's actually that dangerous.

I have to disagree. RLJing takes advantage of the fact that others will obey the rules and you are the sole rule breaker. If three or four people arrive at a junction all with the same poor attitude to the rules then someone will get hurt.

Not only are we hearing of people getting near misses as they cross junctions against the rules we have situations where those who have legitimatly stopped at red getting rammed by RLJers who expected them to proceed over the crossing on a red light.

As a cyclist one of the first things I learned was whatever I hit it damn well hurts no matter how big or small it is.

If we keep antogonizing the public then they'll demand something be done about us. It then becomes a very simple vote catcher and our right, under the Carrigages Act, could be in jeopardy.
 
OP
OP
Cab

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
Commuter said:
I always RLJ if I believe it is safe to do so . I've not been hit or caused an accident yet so I reckon I'm a good judge of the situation.

I once heard something very similar.

"I often drink and drive, I rekon I'm safe to do so, I know my limits..."

Do you believe that each individual should have the freedom to pick and choose which laws apply to them?

For those of you who feel it necessary to confront RLJ ers, do you ever , ever break the law ??

Can't think of any law (other than not doing archery on a Sunday...) that I habitually break.

ie, 31mph in a 30 zone, 71mph on the motorway ? Do you always ensure that your wheels come to a stop when at a stop sign even if it's 3am and not anothe car on the road ??

I come to pretty near a stop, i.e. my forward momentum more or less halts; I don't put my feet down if I can help it. And I don't drive, so I don't speed.

[qoute]
I suspect not.

If you have a bee in you bonnet about RLJ ers, keep it to yourself.[/QUOTE]

No. If you red light jump then stop it, your selfish and illegal behaviour reflects badly on all of us.
 
OP
OP
Cab

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
Tetedelacourse said:
RLJing only directly affects the safety of the RLJer. Their choice.

Not true. RLJers often come out with this argument. I suppose therefore you're happy for cars, lorries, busses and vans to red light jump because the driver believes its safe to do so? And if they get that judement wrong...?

The purpose of having laws like this is that they take the decision away from the individual, when the individual isn't trusted to make that choice for themself within the wider context of safety and welfare of everyone. You break this law, you're stepping outside of that context and saying you don't give a monkeys about everyone else. That matters. It matters even more that enough cyclists do so that the generalisation of cyclists being selfish nutters appears to many to hold true.

That said, my feelings are probably the result of what I think is generally good motoring behaviour on my commute plus the fact that I meet very few cyclists on my route. And if you are someone who these things are important to, then fair enough you're perfectly entitled to get annoyed by it.

Loads of cyclists here. I see this every day. And I see more aggression towards cyclists than anywhere else I've ridden. The two are linked, bad cycling behaviour breeds bad treatment of cyclists.
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
Road Fiddler said:
This sounds like the sort of thing said by someone who is not taking responsibility for there actions. Ok you my be an adult of sound mind and you are probably capable of judging the conditions and probable dangers by acting in a given way, for instance RLJ.

But, what happens when you are approaching a junction which you pass everyday, you know the light sequence and you plow through without regard and there is someone, possibly a preteen riding to school, who is following you and decides to follow you through just because if its safe for you so it must be safe for him and he is taken out. Would you take responsibility for your actions then?

The way it affects other cyclists is by encouraging them to take silly risks themselves and the younger the cyclist the less developed there judgement, road sense and there self preservation instinct. You are putting per-pressure on them to follow how ever unintentional it is.[/QUOTE]

^I haven't seen this ever happen^. I will take your word for it if you have though.

If I was part of an accident then of course I would take responsibility for my actions.
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
frog said:
I have to disagree. RLJing takes advantage of the fact that others will obey the rules and you are the sole rule breaker. If three or four people arrive at a junction all with the same poor attitude to the rules then someone will get hurt.

Not only are we hearing of people getting near misses as they cross junctions against the rules we have situations where those who have legitimatly stopped at red getting rammed by RLJers who expected them to proceed over the crossing on a red light.

As a cyclist one of the first things I learned was whatever I hit it damn well hurts no matter how big or small it is.

If we keep antogonizing the public then they'll demand something be done about us. It then becomes a very simple vote catcher and our right, under the Carrigages Act, could be in jeopardy.

But if the attitude was "it's safe to proceed so I will" then no-one would get hurt.

Your last point Frog - I think this (both the act of RLJ and the antagonistic attitude) must be more prevalent down south and so I'll take your word for it. I haven't heard that attitude expressed up north.
 
Tetedelacourse said:
Your last point Frog - I think this (both the act of RLJ and the antagonistic attitude) must be more prevalent down south and so I'll take your word for it. I haven't heard that attitude expressed up north.

I'm from Glasgow and I have heard this attitude on a number of occasions.

'Shouldn't be on the road', 'Don't pay road tax', 'all break the rules' etc.

I was in a taxi once (in Glasgow) when the driver started cursing a cyclist on the road (who was doing no wrong) and said something like 'they all break the f**kn' rules'

Suffice it to say he was corrected an did not receive a tip!!
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
Cab said:
Not true. RLJers often come out with this argument. I suppose therefore you're happy for cars, lorries, busses and vans to red light jump because the driver believes its safe to do so? And if they get that judement wrong...?

The purpose of having laws like this is that they take the decision away from the individual, when the individual isn't trusted to make that choice for themself within the wider context of safety and welfare of everyone. You break this law, you're stepping outside of that context and saying you don't give a monkeys about everyone else. That matters. It matters even more that enough cyclists do so that the generalisation of cyclists being selfish nutters appears to many to hold true.



Loads of cyclists here. I see this every day. And I see more aggression towards cyclists than anywhere else I've ridden. The two are linked, bad cycling behaviour breeds bad treatment of cyclists.[/QUOTE]

I'll take your word for it.

I can't defend dangerous cycling behaviour, or antagonistic behaviour or disrespectful behaviour. And I think I would accept that RLJ is possibly an example of the latter going by comments and experiences posted. Not convinced about the former though.
 
OP
OP
Cab

Cab

New Member
Location
Cambridge
Tetedelacourse said:
^I haven't seen this ever happen^. I will take your word for it if you have though.

I see it every day. I'm amazed that more of the younger, inexperienced cyclists in Cambridge don't get squished; I see plenty of knocks though, and if their bikes were worth more dosh then I rekon we'd be plagued with reported accidents here.
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
magnatom said:
I'm from Glasgow and I have heard this attitude on a number of occasions.

'Shouldn't be on the road', 'Don't pay road tax', 'all break the rules' etc.

I was in a taxi once (in Glasgow) when the driver started cursing a cyclist on the road (who was doing no wrong) and said something like 'they all break the f**kn' rules'

Suffice it to say he was corrected an did not receive a tip!!

Did you have your cycling gear on?:biggrin: I'd probably say something in that instance too.
 

dondare

Über Member
Location
London
Is Atlantis up North? I didn't know that.

Cab is 100% correct, bad behaviour by cyclists breeds bad treatment of cyclists. If as an RLJer you take responsibility for your actions, then realize that you are responsible for other cyclists getting killed or injured on the road by motorists who treat all of us as outlaws because they see so many cyclists breaking the law.
RLJing also gives ammunition to those who insist that cycling should be further regulated. The sense of freedom that you feel because you are happy to ignore the laws that constrain others could lead to a real loss of freedom for yourself and for me which is why I think that you are such Rsoles.
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
dondare said:
Is Atlantis up North? I didn't know that..

Have you seen our climate?

dondare said:
Cab is 100% correct, bad behaviour by cyclists breeds bad treatment of cyclists. .

OK I accept that this may be true, although I personally have not experienced this.


dondare said:
motorists who treat all of us as outlaws because they see so many cyclists breaking the law. .

Well no they don't, see above.

dondare said:
RLJing also gives ammunition to those who insist that cycling should be further regulated. The sense of freedom that you feel because you are happy to ignore the laws that constrain others could lead to a real loss of freedom for yourself and for me.

This could well be the case, I agree.

dondare said:
I think that you are such Rsoles.

Eh, I never said that I RLJ, just that I'm not sure it's dangerous or worth pulling others up for, and that I haven't directly experienced the animosity or attitude against cyclists as a whole that quite clearly others have. But you are entitled to your opinion Don.
 
Tetedelacourse said:
Did you have your cycling gear on?:biggrin: I'd probably say something in that instance too.

No I was dressed as a pedestrian (do they have a dress code?xx()

As I left he agreed to disagree, I just thought he was a tosser.:biggrin:
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
dondare said:
Is Atlantis up North? I didn't know that.

Cab is 100% correct, bad behaviour by cyclists breeds bad treatment of cyclists. If as an RLJer you take responsibility for your actions, then realize that you are responsible for other cyclists getting killed or injured on the road by motorists who treat all of us as outlaws because they see so many cyclists breaking the law.
RLJing also gives ammunition to those who insist that cycling should be further regulated. The sense of freedom that you feel because you are happy to ignore the laws that constrain others could lead to a real loss of freedom for yourself and for me which is why I think that you are such Rsoles.

magnatom said:
No I was dressed as a pedestrian (do they have a dress code?xx()

As I left he agreed to disagree, I just thought he was a tosser.:biggrin:

But a useful one at least.
 

domtyler

Über Member
dondare said:
Is Atlantis up North? I didn't know that.

Cab is 100% correct, bad behaviour by cyclists breeds bad treatment of cyclists. If as an RLJer you take responsibility for your actions, then realize that you are responsible for other cyclists getting killed or injured on the road by motorists who treat all of us as outlaws because they see so many cyclists breaking the law.
RLJing also gives ammunition to those who insist that cycling should be further regulated. The sense of freedom that you feel because you are happy to ignore the laws that constrain others could lead to a real loss of freedom for yourself and for me which is why I think that you are such Rsoles.

What freaking planet are you from? :biggrin:
 
Top Bottom