- Location
- The TerrorVortex
I do wonder quite what you're doing on a cycling forum, BFF.
Is this some kind of elaborate wind-up? If so, I don't really get it.
Is this some kind of elaborate wind-up? If so, I don't really get it.
"Road Tax"
- Thread starter oldroadman
- Start date
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brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Call me whacko doctor but I come on a cycling forum because I cycle.
I also drive a vehicle quite a lot which is obviously a bit unpalatable to some people on here but I am in the majority as there are a few million of us driving vehicles if you hadn't noticed.
It's really just that simple.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
And there it is1691238 said:
classic33
Leg End Member
I can remember pre-decimilisation, as could a few other on here. Problem is how many 80-90 year olds are on here. Old enough to remember Road Tax as a tax.
As for getting cycles taxed I seem to remember reading that in order to implement & run the scheme it would cost every motorist(who actually pays) an extra £50 per year. How would that work out then.
25% was a figure given by the goverment for the number of vehicles on the road, liable to pay VED & insurance that have neither. Cost on the insurance side was recently given as £300,000,000 lost & made up by those who actually pay.
Does "Road Tax" give those who pay it the right to use the pavements. No longer satisfied with owning the roads, they want the pavements as well.
This debate tickles me, but I think people may be getting exercised about null issues.
Very few drivers (and none I know personally) really believe that VED or Road Tax is actually used to pay for the building and upkeep of the road network. Some knuckleheads may shout it through open windows as they pass, but that's probably because they are too dull witted to think of anything else to say. Let it go.
Yes, motorists are taxed until the pips squesk, but rightly so. Cars make a lot of mess and cause a lot of damage. If the taxes were insanely high, we'd see fewer cars on the road. We don't. People keep driving, so taxation (though it hurts to say it) is probably not too high. I am an enthusiastic driver and we have three cars, so I'm not writing from behind a screen of car-hatred. Quite the opposite.
Some motorists might feel jolly cross about the cost of running their vehicle and might feel the need to get shouty about it. Cyclists who are whipping past them in traffic present an easy pressure vent for all their frustration. Yelling about Road Tax at the odd passing cyclist doesn't constitute a rational debate about how the Government raises funds and distributes them. It's just some turnip letting off steam. Let it go.
Taxing bicycles? Really, it's neither practical nor productive. If I were in charge, they'd be zero-rated for VAT at point of sale, but that's just me.
Getting riled by people referring to Road Tax? I call it Road Tax. Everyone I know does. I refer to my V5 as my logbook. Almost everyone does. I refer to my 'PIN Number', even though I know that's tautology. I think of my Council Charge as Rates. Many people do. People refer to Continental Europe and 'Europe' as though we somehow live elsewhere.... It really isn't a big deal. Let it go.
As a cyclist of 40+ years in the UK, France, ex-Yugoslavia and elsewhere I've been jolly lucky: Other road users are rarely horrid to me. Few have ever felt the need to yell at me or lecture me on how the government distributes tax revenue.
Almost 50% of the population are below average intelligence. Let them have their shouty moan about matters they don't understand.
There are several thousand miles of lovely tarmac out there, just waiting to be ridden on. Enjoy them. I know I do.
And I pay for them too, through Road Tax.
Very few drivers (and none I know personally) really believe that VED or Road Tax is actually used to pay for the building and upkeep of the road network. Some knuckleheads may shout it through open windows as they pass, but that's probably because they are too dull witted to think of anything else to say. Let it go.
Yes, motorists are taxed until the pips squesk, but rightly so. Cars make a lot of mess and cause a lot of damage. If the taxes were insanely high, we'd see fewer cars on the road. We don't. People keep driving, so taxation (though it hurts to say it) is probably not too high. I am an enthusiastic driver and we have three cars, so I'm not writing from behind a screen of car-hatred. Quite the opposite.
Some motorists might feel jolly cross about the cost of running their vehicle and might feel the need to get shouty about it. Cyclists who are whipping past them in traffic present an easy pressure vent for all their frustration. Yelling about Road Tax at the odd passing cyclist doesn't constitute a rational debate about how the Government raises funds and distributes them. It's just some turnip letting off steam. Let it go.
Taxing bicycles? Really, it's neither practical nor productive. If I were in charge, they'd be zero-rated for VAT at point of sale, but that's just me.
Getting riled by people referring to Road Tax? I call it Road Tax. Everyone I know does. I refer to my V5 as my logbook. Almost everyone does. I refer to my 'PIN Number', even though I know that's tautology. I think of my Council Charge as Rates. Many people do. People refer to Continental Europe and 'Europe' as though we somehow live elsewhere.... It really isn't a big deal. Let it go.
As a cyclist of 40+ years in the UK, France, ex-Yugoslavia and elsewhere I've been jolly lucky: Other road users are rarely horrid to me. Few have ever felt the need to yell at me or lecture me on how the government distributes tax revenue.
Almost 50% of the population are below average intelligence. Let them have their shouty moan about matters they don't understand.
There are several thousand miles of lovely tarmac out there, just waiting to be ridden on. Enjoy them. I know I do.
And I pay for them too, through Road Tax.
That's logical? A change that makes no difference?
+1 Bicycle. I selected the above bit but it could have equally been anything you wrote. I really do enjoy your posts.
brokenflipflop
Veteran
- Location
- Worsley
Are you defending me there Adrian or asking someone to slag me off in more detail ?
- Location
- The TerrorVortex
I'm not trying to slag you off - I was asking a question, and you answered it.
If I was slagging someone off I'd hope they'd be in no doubt about it!!
Had an intersting discussion on this with a guy at work.... after he started I simply asked how much they should pay?
He reckoned about £50!
Then ask if that is for all Band A vehicles, and point out that it is more than Band A, B or C vehicles, therefore these would have to rise in a similar way!
Then of course this escalates.
Finally point out that he is actually arguing for a rise for all VED bands!
The biggest myth of all - they are in fact very heavily subsidised!
Depending on sources, the total cost of running a car has dropped dramatically and in terms of income and disposable income is cheaper than at any time in the last fifteen to twenty years.
The cost of a vehicle on the road is again disputable depending on sources and whether you should include accidents, Policing and damage from Pollution. However the estimates are that the running of each vehicle in the UK is between £500 and £1000 per vehicle.
Finally we have a £2billion pound subsidy of insurance where payments form household and life insurance policies are diverted to fill the hole between income and expenditure on motor vehicle insurance.
To pay their fair share of costs each vehicle (depending on estimates) should be paying a further £2,000 to £3000 per year
400bhp
Guru
I imagine the myths surrounding Greek deities Zeus, Aphrodite and similar might be bigger than that... But seriously:
Many who run a motor vehicle in the UK and have tracked their costs over the years will find the above assertion odd. For me and my family it has not dropped. Quite the reverse. We are now paying £5.20 or more for a gallon of fuel. In 1992 it was £2.09. VED has increased for most vehicles since 1992 by more than the rate of inflation. Similarly, annual service costs have increased by more than inflation. Oddly, tyre prices have not (for us) but these represent a tiny proportion of our annual motoring costs. Whether calculated as a proprtion of family income or in real terms, car ownership (mileage unchanged) has become significantly more expensive in the past 20 years.
Purchase price (cars) has fallen in real terms since 1992, but used value has fallen by the same proportion. This has not had a beneficial effect (net depreciation) on real-terms costs for us.
I have fallen into a significantly cheaper insurance age-band since 1992, moved to a safer postcode, have fewer points and do a lower-risk job. Yet my annual premium is higher in real terms. As is my wife's.
I do not for a moment weep about this. Running a car is a luxury and it is right that I should pay. It is right that the pips should squeak - and they do. As I said before, I support high taxation for motorists.
Unless the source for your data has changed from doing 80,000 urban miles a year in a 288GTO to doing 3,000 rural miles a year in a Nissan Leaf, I find your assertion unlikely. If it is based on your own experiences, I should be glad to hear where the principal savings have been made.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone else whose real-terms motoring costs have dropped in the past 20 years, other than through significantly changed circumstances (as in above example).
youngoldbloke
The older I get, the faster I used to be ...
- but WHY does he think that? Isn't he simply ignorant of the whole structure of VED charges. Aren't those calling for VED on bicycles really calling for a punitive, spiteful, form of registration, in the hope that it would reduce the number of cyclists on the roads getting in their way? What about the effect on childrens cycling? Does anyone seriously think a registration scheme is practical.
classic33
Leg End Member
Why don't we all give it a try & find out. If we all submit online forms on the sme day, at roughly the same time who knows. Or we could keep up a steady stream of them throughout the day.
Local DVLA office went nuts trying to locate the correct paperwork.
