running red lights

[StuartG]

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"


A philosophical question which can be related to if you cross a red light and nobody is around to see - is it a crime?


Before you say yes, remember the law is there to adjudicate/mediate between the interests of different people. On a island inhabited by one person there is no need for law (except maybe for animal cruelty). The law would be an unjust imposition.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So would said person live in anarchy? I've never thought about such a question before.

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

A philosophical question which can be related to if you cross a red light and nobody is around to see - is it a crime?

Before you say yes, remember the law is there to adjudicate/mediate between the interests of different people. On a island inhabited by one person there is no need for law (except maybe for animal cruelty). The law would be an unjust imposition.

 

[Melonfish]

i stop at all red lights bar one.

well that's not entirely true i do stop at it but when the damn thing stays red (one of those radar jobbies) i either need to wait for a car to follow me to to get the lights to change, or i have to wait until the junction is totally clear of traffic.
its a fast road i'm turning onto so i need to be sure its clear, i don't like going through the red but i have little choice i've got no other way of changing the light.

 

[fossyant]

No.

It's good interval training. Stop start - good for the lactic acid threshold. I remember switching from a relatively stop free commute to an urban one of less miles but lots of stops - the constant stop start was killing me at first.

Just not worth it, especially if you get caught out and hit something - not a leg to stand on, literally.

 

[martint235]

i stop at all red lights bar one.

well that's not entirely true i do stop at it but when the damn thing stays red (one of those radar jobbies) i either need to wait for a car to follow me to to get the lights to change, or i have to wait until the junction is totally clear of traffic.
its a fast road i'm turning onto so i need to be sure its clear, i don't like going through the red but i have little choice i've got no other way of changing the light.

Is there a pedestrian crossing at the junction on the main road? Could always get off, walk to the pedestrian crossing, trigger it and get back on again on the road.

 

[Andrew_P]

That's no excuse for cycling on the pavement. Get off and push and then contact the council about the faulty sensor.

Could you explain the what difference it makes to anyone on an empty pavement with an empty road? Apart from people on this forum? The Bypass I avoid outbound is because I am expected to ride on a unmarked shared pavement having gone up a HUGE constant u turning footbridge. The Cycle path then delivers you at the end on the wrong side of the road at a roundabout.

To be frank if there was even light traffic I wouldn't do it, and if there are Pedestrians I do not do it. But @ 6.30am if I am so inclined I will do it and without any guilt, shameful I know.

 

[JamesAC]

No.
It's illegal.

If there's an argument for cyclists to ignore red lights at 2 a.m or whatever and they can see that it's "safe", then the same argument is true for motorcyclists, WVM and drivers of articulated trucks.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Agreed.

No.
It's illegal.

If there's an argument for cyclists to ignore red lights at 2 a.m or whatever and they can see that it's "safe", then the same argument is true for motorcyclists, WVM and drivers of articulated trucks.

 

[Bman]

No, except this one.

It doesnt detect me going through from one side of the lights, so its not technically RLJ'ing.

I once sat there waiting for ages. Until I gave up, dismounted and started pushing my bike past on the pavement. The car behind me edged forward and instantly triggered the lights

 

[goo_mason]

No.

 

[sabian92]

No they don't. They really don't.

Green means "Go if it is clear". It does not mean "plough through whatever is ahead of you".

I don't jump red lights. I don't like that other people do. They don't deserve to die though, and there's no granted right to run into them - if traffic on green can stop safely, it should, must.

I know green means "Proceed If Safe", but let's be honest - do you drive a car and expect to see a cyclist in the middle of a junction when they aren't supposed to be there? I certainly don't. Maybe wishing death upon cyclists is a bit harsh but everybody else stops (or rather, is legally obliged to) so what makes cyclists so special? I certainly don't RLJ and I don't see why I should. It costs me time, but I'd rather it cost me that than my life.

As a (newer) cyclist I don't understand a lot of things about cycling, but I understand that they are not above the law. Nobody else is.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I was taught to expect the unexpected. Always treat an empty road as being full of potential hazzards. Rather like a gun being always loaded. When you know it is return to beginnig of sentence.

I know green means "Proceed If Safe", but let's be honest - do you drive a car and expect to see a cyclist in the middle of a junction when they aren't supposed to be there? I certainly don't. Maybe wishing death upon cyclists is a bit harsh but everybody else stops (or rather, is legally obliged to) so what makes cyclists so special? I certainly don't RLJ and I don't see why I should. It costs me time, but I'd rather it cost me that than my life.

As a (newer) cyclist I don't understand a lot of things about cycling, but I understand that they are not above the law. Nobody else is.

 

[John the Monkey]

... do you drive a car and expect to see a cyclist in the middle of a junction when they aren't supposed to be there? I certainly don't.

Expect? No. Am I ready if there is one? Yep, or as much as I can be, in any case. Same as I am if it's a truck, a car (increasingly likely these days, sadly) a horse &c.

On a bike, not assuming that the road ahead is clear *solely* because my light is green has saved my bacon a number of times. On one memorable occasion, from an RLJ'ing bus, pursuing a car whose driver the bus driver had got the hump with, and decided to chase after (in his bus).

I've been put at risk exactly once by a red light jumping cyclist, in nearly four years of commutes in and out of Manchester. In bad weeks, motorists will put me at risk once or twice a day - it's certainly possible to care about both problems, but I think the drivers worry me most.

... but everybody else stops (or rather, is legally obliged to) so what makes cyclists so special? I certainly don't RLJ and I don't see why I should. It costs me time, but I'd rather it cost me that than my life.

I'm not disagreeing - I don't RLJ, I'd very much prefer others not to. But stuff happens - driving (or riding) sensibly when others don't can avoid such situations becoming something worse than a source of annoyance. Think of it as herd immunity against stupidity.

 

[lejogger]

I'm an occassional RLJer. Never on a busy junction or pedestrian crossing... and I would never try to persuade anyone to do it, or judge someone who did or didn't unless they were endangering themselves or others.
...But sometimes I do here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Approaching the lights you have a clear view on anything approaching from the right, and there will only ever be cars approaching from the right if on red.

It's a slight climb, so not stopping allows you to keep momentum (obviously while still slowing to check that it's clear) and hold primary so as not to get squeezed at the top around the bend. I wouldn't go up here in secondary.

If I stop at the red I've been honked for being slow clipping in when in my cycle zone by the car behind, and for holding up cars getting up the small climb in primary from a standing start.
I've also been honked for doing a RLJ by a car annoyed that he'd had to wait and I didn't.

If safe to do so, I'd rather get up the climb without a white van up my arse tbh. I'm not going to risk my body and bike in a collision with a vehicle. I know what the result would be. I'm not going to pull a manouvre like that if I'm not 100% certain that it's safe to do so. Lots of traffic lights are nothing to do with safety, they're to manage congestion and give traffic an even chance at getting out at junctions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure in America, certain states allow left turns at red lights if safe. Makes sense to me.

 

[abo]

Naw, I'm not a RLJ'er. Bloke I was following today did one in town, making a right turn, and although I didn't follow him I can't see issue with what he did (other than it actually being illegal lol). Road was clear both ways, no peds or traffic.

I did use a couple of crossings though, to save myself a half-mile detour.