Saddle Height.

[MichaelW2]

If you want to record your riding position, you should use [x,y] coordinates to eliminate angles. It is really hard to measure angles accurately and often the specs are wrong or don't apply to the size you have.
Use the bottom bracket as [0,0]. Mark x=0 on your top tube using some tape. Measure from this position to your saddle and bars. I use the saddle nose and the grip where the web of my hand rests.
Once you have the measurements you can transfer your position to another bike of roughly the correct size, or replicate your bike if it gets stolen or damaged.
You need to take crank length into consideration if you change ot use different sizes on different bikes.

 

[HLaB]

I thought maybe I had overshot when I said 20mm, but didn't think 2mm would be even noticeable.

I don't know if 2mm would be noticed but it surprising what a few mm can do. FWIW I like to work in 5mm increments.

On saddle height the last two fits I have had have put the saddle down a fraction. Apparently a lot of traditional fits have cyclist too high so they are over extending the back of their knee and lowering it a smidge avoids that and injury. Its working for me anyway touch wood

 

[cyberknight]

I don't know if 2mm would be noticed but it surprising what a few mm can do. FWIW I like to work in 5mm increments.

On saddle height the last two fits I have had have put the saddle down a fraction. Apparently a lot of traditional fits have cyclist too high so they are over extending the back of their knee and lowering it a smidge avoids that and injury. Its working for me anyway touch wood

I know if i put my saddle up 2 mm i can feel a bit of pressure on the nads, could be im at the upper limit of the right height as you say .

 

[Slick]

This is worth a read .
http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/changing-positions.html

Really good read. The second fitter on the new bike is certainly a big advocate of the modern racing position, probably because he was a racer himself back in the day. Still no news on the new bike, so still all a bit academic until I have it in front of me.

 

[HLaB]

I know if i put my saddle up 2 mm i can feel a bit of pressure on the nads, could be im at the upper limit of the right height as you say .

Yeah I think I was before (about 9 years ago) but it was my calves. I was running a bike with 175mm cranks and one with 172.5mm and the smaller cranks felt more comfortable on the calves. IIRC I moved the saddle down 2.5mm and forward 2.5mm on the 175mm cranked bike and it felt comfortable. It was a tiny change and seemed to make a massive difference

 

[Slick]

I don't know if 2mm would be noticed but it surprising what a few mm can do. FWIW I like to work in 5mm increments.

On saddle height the last two fits I have had have put the saddle down a fraction. Apparently a lot of traditional fits have cyclist too high so they are over extending the back of their knee and lowering it a smidge avoids that and injury. Its working for me anyway touch wood

I probably moved the saddle up around 60mm in one go, so I wasn't expecting 2mm to make a huge difference.

 

[Slick]

I know if i put my saddle up 2 mm i can feel a bit of pressure on the nads, could be im at the upper limit of the right height as you say .

To be honest, I really felt it on the perineum. I suppose reason enough to start lowering it.

 

[Slick]

Yeah I think I was before (about 9 years ago) but it was my calves. I was running a bike with 175mm cranks and one with 172.5mm and the smaller cranks felt more comfortable on the calves. IIRC I moved the saddle down 2.5mm and forward 2.5mm on the 175mm cranked bike and it felt comfortable. It was a tiny change and seemed to make a massive difference

Funny you mentioned calves, I felt that they were spared with the higher position but my quads took a helluva beating.

 

[fossyant]

I swear by Bernard Hinault's book Race and Riding Technique. Set's all the parameters and you can do it yourself.

For me, on a new bike (AKA a track hire bike) sit on bike, crank to bottom, if your heal can just touch the pedal at the axel (bear foot) , then that's a good start. For me, I raise it 5mm.

For new bikes I measure BB axel to saddle rail then take in allowance for differing saddles, after measuring the sit points. Works for me. I have bikes that I can get the measurement from the last 25 years, so it's applied to road bikes and even MTB's with hydraulic seat posts.

All are still set up with Hinault's measurement recommendations.

 

[fossyant]

Key point is measure what you have and write it down. Do not ever adjust measurements more than a few mm at a time, even if your original measurement is wrong. It stops muscle and ligament damage. No 'big' changes in one go.

 

[robjh]

I've been told my hips rock when I'm on my road bike, which is a sign of a too-high saddle (and may be related to some back pain I've been having). Anyway, so I've measured my position using the various methods (straight leg, degree of knee bend, LeMond inseam x 0.883) and put the saddle down by a whole 2cm, and my initial feeling is that it hasn't made things worse.
But how (other than asking a friend) do you tell if your own hips are rocking when you ride? I never felt them doing that before, so I can't tell now if they've stopped.

 

[Slick]

I've been told my hips rock when I'm on my road bike, which is a sign of a too-high saddle (and may be related to some back pain I've been having). Anyway, so I've measured my position using the various methods (straight leg, degree of knee bend, LeMond inseam x 0.883) and put the saddle down by a whole 2cm, and my initial feeling is that it hasn't made things worse.
But how (other than asking a friend) do you tell if your own hips are rocking when you ride? I never felt them doing that before, so I can't tell now if they've stopped.

Probably can't without someone telling you, especially if you have been doing it for a long time, as it becomes the norm.

 

[Slick]

Key point is measure what you have and write it down. Do not ever adjust measurements more than a few mm at a time, even if your original measurement is wrong. It stops muscle and ligament damage. No 'big' changes in one go.

May explain the pain in the unmentionables and the thigh.

 

[fossyant]

May explain the pain in the unmentionables and the thigh.

Yep.

Never, ever adjust anything by more than a couple of MM at a time - and leave it a few weeks, even if you are wildly out originally. Even minor mm adjustments can cause big problems.

Adjusting shoe cleats are a big issue. My knees feel it as soon as I turn a pedal...

 

[Slick]

Yep.

Never, ever adjust anything by more than a couple of MM at a time - and leave it a few weeks, even if you are wildly out originally. Even minor mm adjustments can cause big problems.

Adjusting shoe cleats are a big issue. My knees feel it as soon as I turn a pedal...

Yeah, I was just a bit keen to try out the new geometry of the new bike while I wait for it. I'll reduce the height back down before tomorrows ride.