schwalbe marathon plus?

[Alan O]

Keep in mind that Gatorskins are lighter in weight because they don't have anywhere near the puncture resistance nor the tread life that the Marathons have, also Gatorskin Duraskin sidewalls are very thin and flimsy which attributes to the tires smoother ride but it also makes the tire much more prone to sidewall damage then any other tire on the market that's not a Conti, almost the entire line of Conti road tires have thin flimsy sidewalls and the Duraskin sidewall is not designed to take much damage. Also a smoother riding tire feels faster when in reality it may not be, in fact the Gatorskin rolling resistance takes 20.2 watts to turn with 100 psi whereas the Marathon Greenguard takes only 1.1 watt more...you cannot feel 1.1 watts, the very least amount of watts a human can perceive is 3 watts, now a 1 watt difference could make or break a 100 mile race by about 10 seconds but neither of those tires are racing tires so gaining 10 seconds over 100 miles is not even remotely important nor remotely noticeable; what you are feeling is the smoother ride of the Gatorskin. And when you think about it, only losing 1 watt of energy over a tire that is about 450 grams lighter is truly amazing.

The sidewall thickness of the Gatorskin is just .7 mm thick whereas the Marathon Greenguard is 1.65 mm thick; the tread thickness is 3.2 mm thick for the Gator and 7.3 for the Greenguard. The Marathon plus a bit thicker in the tread and sidewall vs the Greenguard. Thicker sidewalls do make installing them more difficult which is something to keep in mind, however also keep in mind that a tough to install tire will be tougher to come off the rim if a blowout occurs, and for that reason I prefer tough to install tires. I found the Marathon to be difficult to install so I heated them in an over at 125 degrees for about 20 minutes which made it a bit less difficult, also using a tool called the VAR Tyre RP-42500 lever makes putting on that last 2 or so inches a snap.

According to recent tests the top three tires for puncture resistance in order of least to best is #3 Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard; #2 Schwalbe Marathon Plus; and #1 the Vittoria Randonneur...but this tire is noticeably slower using a full 12 watts more than the Schwalbe tires, I'm not going to want to haul 45 or pounds of weight around and be slowed down some more by tires! So while the Vittoria may have the best puncture resistance on the market I'll go with the Schwalbe.

Speaking of rolling resistance, you can reduce rolling resistance by 1 to 2 watts on any tire by simply using liberal amount of talc on the tube before you install; and you can reduce it another 2 to 3 watts using latex tubes but I find these tubes to be too fragile plus they're difficult to patch.

Because I only use those tires on my touring bike, and since I don't like to have flats when I tour especially in the rear I've installed a flat liner in the rear tire only called the Clean Motion RhinoDillos, there is no test for rolling resistance using these liners. I use only Specialized Turbo tubes which don't weigh as much as a lot of other regular tubes, and their consistency is good and their valves are high quality.

Interesting, but to be honest, I don't really take any notice of measurements, watts, rolling resistance and all that, because that all says nothing whatsoever about how a tyre feels out on the road - and that's what matters most to me. My Gatorskins are definitely more comfortable on a long ride and I feel less fatigued at the end - and fatigue has a lot to do with comfort. Sure, I know they will puncture more easily than my Marathons and won't last as long. But I can fix punctures easily enough (only had one so far this year) and I can afford a new pair of tyres every couple of years - and I consider that a price well worth paying for superior comfort. For me, Marathons come into their own when some of the surfaces I ride on get a bit softer, and the better grip then swings the balance in their favour*. So when our hot dry summer comes to an end I'll be back on those. And as an aside, I find my Marathon Greenguards easy to get on and off.

*Just to add, I also switch to the Marathons if part of my ride is on rougher tracks but I don't want to use my MTB (like if I'm doing a 60-70 mile ride partly on such tracks - I'm no good on my MTB for much beyond 40 miles)

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Thanks to @froze for the detailed and informative posting.
Having read quite a few responses on the question of tyres, I think I've decided I don't really want M+ but original Marathon sound to be at least as good as the Delta Cruiser+ I run my hybrids on, but with a much longer service life. When you consider the cost difference between M and DC+, running cost per mile should just favour the Marathon, and have roughly the same level of puncture resistance.
I'm also considering a belt & braces approach using Dr Sludge puncture-resistant tyre liners inside a DC+ or original M tyre. Currently I'm evaluating the worth of the Dr Sludge liners by using a pair of them inside some ratty old unprotected knobbly MTB tyres fitted to my gravel & dirt track bike. If they are successful at repelling The Fairy on unprotected tyres, I may well fit them into all my wheels irrespective of tyre fitment. In theory that should give me M+ levels of protection without actually fitting M+, and the liners are re-usable when a tyre wears out and is replaced..

 

[Alan O]

Having read quite a few responses on the question of tyres, I think I've decided I don't really want M+ but original Marathon sound to be at least as good as the Delta Cruiser+ I run my hybrids on, but with a much longer service life. When you consider the cost difference between M and DC+, running cost per mile should just favour the Marathon, and have roughly the same level of puncture resistance.

I was talking to a cycling friend not long ago about cost-effectiveness of tyres. I've only done about 600 miles on my Marathon Greenguard, so I can't really say yet, but he's used Marathon (Greenguard and Plus) on his tourer for as long as he can remember, and he's convinced they're the most economical per mile that he's ever used. I also found it interesting that he hasn't noticed any difference in longevity between the Greenguard and the Plus.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I also found it interesting that he hasn't noticed any difference in longevity between the Greenguard and the Plus.

I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.

 

[Alan O]

I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.

Yep, I agree. I only use expensive tyres on decent bikes that I never leave unattended. I have a £30 hack bike (extravagant, I hear you say ) that has the tyres it came with (whatever they are), and when they wear out (if they wear out before I do) they'll be replaced by the cheapest I can find (within reason).

 

[MarkF]

I wouldn't expect any difference, TBH, from what I've been able to make out the difference is only really to do with the level of protection. i'd assume the outer carcass was made of a similar compound, with the difference purely being the type & effectiveness of the puncture resistance. I'm inclined to agree that high grade tyres are probably cheaper per mile - but only if the bike so fitted doesn't get stolen or vandalised. I think you have to be selective according to where you ride and what you ride. No point in fitting £60 of M+ to a £10 pub hack that only gets ridden within a couple of miles from home though.
Good bike used for longer rides and not left unattended is a different matter.

A tad pedantic but I've never paid more than £50 a pair and soon I'll have them fitted to all my bikes (bar folders), I've just put 25mm's on my road bike. I just don't want to be bothered with flats, especially when I've been to the pub!

 

[Alan O]

I just don't want to be bothered with flats, especially when I've been to the pub!

I know what you mean - I used to struggle getting my bike up to the third floor after a pub session.

 

[chippyNcyclist]

Hi,can anyone tell me how good these tyres are,looking at getting some for the winter commute,should i go for as wide as i can ie 35mm or as the current tyres are 28mm?Thanks M

I've been using these through the winter in the Cotswolds and spring since last July when an Inverness to Fort William ride then round some of the Inner Hebs resulted in 6 punctures. They are bomb proof excellent road hold and ride over anything, also very stiff. not fast but for commuting and touring excellent. I ride 32 rear and 28 front. So good that just bought the Schwalbe drano Performance for my Audax bike, same technology.

 

[froze]

Interesting, but to be honest, I don't really take any notice of measurements, watts, rolling resistance and all that, because that all says nothing whatsoever about how a tyre feels out on the road - and that's what matters most to me. My Gatorskins are definitely more comfortable on a long ride and I feel less fatigued at the end - and fatigue has a lot to do with comfort. Sure, I know they will puncture more easily than my Marathons and won't last as long. But I can fix punctures easily enough (only had one so far this year) and I can afford a new pair of tyres every couple of years - and I consider that a price well worth paying for superior comfort. For me, Marathons come into their own when some of the surfaces I ride on get a bit softer, and the better grip then swings the balance in their favour*. So when our hot dry summer comes to an end I'll be back on those. And as an aside, I find my Marathon Greenguards easy to get on and off.

*Just to add, I also switch to the Marathons if part of my ride is on rougher tracks but I don't want to use my MTB (like if I'm doing a 60-70 mile ride partly on such tracks - I'm no good on my MTB for much beyond 40 miles)

Yes I said that, the Ghettoskins will be more comfortable due to the paper thin sidewalls, but they won't hold up to damage like the Marathon nor will they last anywhere near as long as the Marathon. One poster here claimed he's got 10,000 miles on his rear Marathon, the Ghettoskins will be lucky to get 4,000 "IF" something doesn't first destroy the sidewall. I haven't had mine anywhere near 10,000 miles plus I'm only using them for loaded touring so the added weight I seriously doubt I'll get 10,000 miles, but I'm not one to change out tires till the absolutely have to be, so I could be using those Marathons for a long while yet. Fatigue isn't an issue because the weight of the touring gear plus me, and the fact they roll as well as the Ghettoskins doesn't equate to any fatigue issues.

I can fix punctures myself, I've been doing that for over 40 years from tubulars to clinchers, even patched tubulars on the side of the road which is sort of a long process but if I had gone through my 2 spares then it was needle and thread time. So I didn't buy the Marathons because I'm afraid of flats, I bought them because these were going on a fully loaded touring bike with fenders and a flat becomes quite time consuming with having to remove the panniers and moving the fenders, so I prefer not to be bothered with all of that.

Rims are all different, when I installed the new Marathons Greenguards on my rims they were a bit of struggle due to the tight fit, I assume once they've been on for awhile they'll be easier the next time. But I prefer tight fitting tires because then if by chance I blow a tire it won't suddenly come off the rim like loose fitting tires can.

 

[Truth]

You lot drive me mad !
I was always quite happy with my Gatorskins (although as said previously in this thread I did have a bit of a dodgy period with them) but now I am about to buy a new bike on the cycle to work scheme , that has Vittoria Zaffiro tyres on (700x32), I am wondering whether to switch to Schwalbe.
I am getting the bike from Cycle Republic and will get some new tyres installed by them . I am looking at the whole Schwalbe range on Halfords website and I am getting more and more confused as to what to choose.
The Marathon+ (700x32) are only £6 each more than the standard Marathon but IF the Marathons (700x25 or 700x28) are a lot easier to get on / off than the plus's I may go for them?
I run Gatorskin 700x25 at the moment but would ideally like to go to a 700x28 but I am not that bothered if I go to a 700x32.
I know its all about personal opinion but I value peoples opinions on here so fire away with them......
By the way I am having a Boardman Team Hybrid 2016 bike and it will cost me £310 through the scheme which is a bargain I believe (even if it is an older spec bike)

 

[vickster]

Marathon plus, heavy, slow, slippery. Durano raceguard all the way for me

 

[Alan O]

You lot drive me mad !
I was always quite happy with my Gatorskins (although as said previously in this thread I did have a bit of a dodgy period with them) but now I am about to buy a new bike on the cycle to work scheme , that has Vittoria Zaffiro tyres on (700x32), I am wondering whether to switch to Schwalbe.
I am getting the bike from Cycle Republic and will get some new tyres installed by them . I am looking at the whole Schwalbe range on Halfords website and I am getting more and more confused as to what to choose.
The Marathon+ (700x32) are only £6 each more than the standard Marathon but IF the Marathons (700x25 or 700x28) are a lot easier to get on / off than the plus's I may go for them?
I run Gatorskin 700x25 at the moment but would ideally like to go to a 700x28 but I am not that bothered if I go to a 700x32.
I know its all about personal opinion but I value peoples opinions on here so fire away with them......
By the way I am having a Boardman Team Hybrid 2016 bike and it will cost me £310 through the scheme which is a bargain I believe (even if it is an older spec bike)

The only two I can compare are Marathons (not plus) and Gartorskins, both 32mm and alternated on the same touring bike on roads, cycle paths, gravel, hard earth...

Marathons feel stiffer and more sluggish, and I'm more fatigued at the end of a long ride with them. And they don't feel as grippy on dry tarmac as Gatorskins. But their longevity seems amazing, and they're almost certainly going to be the most cost effective tyres I've used. Puncture protection seems excellent

Gatorskins are more comfortable and feel a little faster, and have better grip on tarmac - but any hint of mud or other slippy stuff, and the grip is gone. I enjoy a ride on them more, and feel less fatigued. Longevity isn't going to be anywhere near as good as the Marathons, and puncture protection (especially sidewall) is inferior.

My answer? Gatorskins for the summer and Marathons for the winter.

I have no experience of Vittoria tyres.

 

[Truth]

Marathon plus, heavy, slow, slippery. Durano raceguard all the way for me

I can get those for £15 each , that's another tyre to consider now !

 

[vickster]

I can get those for £15 each in 700x32 , that's another tyre to consider now !

Spa usually have the 28s at a reasonable price

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s121p3574/SCHWALBE-Durano-HS464-Folding

They put these on my Ti. Roll well and smoothly

 

[Truth]

I can get them in 25's , 28's and 32's for £15 from Halfords. Could get them as pick up from Cycle Republic when I get the bike and get them to fit them before I get there....... lazy eh !