schwalbe marathon plus?

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chriscross1966

Über Member
Location
Swindon
I run Marathon Plus on my commuting Brompton, in 8 years one actual puncture and that was where some git had caltroped the bike path with a carefully placed line of broken glass... getting them on and off some rims can be hard and I carry one of Campagnolos special tyre levers as (for aesthetic reasons) I'm running on carbon rims. I wouldn't have them on a "fun" bike, the sunny days Brompton runs Kojaks and the racer will be on Strozapretti..
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
I was a M+ user ... however, am in the process of changing them . . . . . I have . . . ordered some Michelin Pro4 tyres, will put them on this week and see if there is any difference rolling resistance wise
The Pro4s are a quantum leap in performance compared with the M+s. For low rolling resistance with puncture protection they are in the lead bunch, (with Conti GP 4000S II and Schwalbe One V-guard). Michelins: 15w per tyre, M+ = 25w.
And I've found the Michelins are a darn sight easier than the 4000s to get on my rims, and of course almost any tyre is easier to get on than a M+ (managed it just the once when (with an hour to go after 100+ miles) a failing tyre (Giant P-SL2? which started bulging at its sidewall) 'forced' me to buy and fit an M+ 'by the side of the road'. Came straight off after JoG.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistanc...-v2-2015-vs-schwalbe-one-vguard-clincher-2014
 

froze

Über Member
I don't use the Marathon Plus but I think mine are similar which are the Marathon GreenGuard.

I use those on my touring bike and I got to say...I like them. The odd thing is they are heavy tires of course, but they roll really well and I can't even tell I have heavy tires on, nor do they feel like wood tires, in fact with touring weight on they feel quite nice, now if I ride the bike without any extra weight I reduce the tire pressure to 45 front and 70 rear, but when I add my gear of 45 pounds approximately (I weigh 175 with clothes and the bike weighs 25) I raise the pressure to 60 front and 85 rear.

I think people who complain about the ride quality simply have too much air in the tires, if you use this tire pressure calculator, and use the second one not the first): http://www.dorkypantsr.us/bike-tire-pressure-calculator.html you'll get real close to your idea pressure that will make the bike ride better and make the tires last longer. But again I do use the Greenguard ones so there might be some difference there that I'm unaware of in the ride quality and traction.

I also haven't noticed any grip issues with mine, even in the rain they performed excellently, I don't go touring in the winter so I have no idea how good the grip will be in the winter, but I would suspect that since the tire's tread is made to last a long time, which means the tread is thick and hard, it will not be very good in really cold weather because the rubber will get and lose its pliability. Granted they're not made for racing with, so to expect high speed is a bit lame, that's like saying you bought a Toyota Prius so you could get 50 mpg but are not happy with it because it won't do over 200 mph! You buy the Marathons for touring, durability, and puncture resistance that is second to none.



They are difficult to put on but I was able to do it without resorting to the straps that the video shows but it is a interesting method, all I did was set the tires in a 150 degree oven for about 20 minutes, my wife was none to happy about that but when it was all done there was no burnt rubber going on inside the oven so she mellowed out! I took a tire out and installed like I would normally which is very similar to the video. I used a set of Soma steel core tire levers which are the best levers on the market to get on the last 5 inches, and toward the last 2 inches I had to resort to the VAR tire lever which snapped that last section in. After I got both on my hands were quite sore.

These tires do not retain air any differently than any other tire, the tube holds the air pressure the tire doesn't hold any pressure because it's not a sealed system like tubeless tires, thus the tires will slowly have escaping air pressure like any other tire at the same rate. I haven't noticed any difference whatsoever with psi loss.

Experience wise I've had horrible luck with anything made by Conti in the road tire area, but the MTB tires seem to be just fine. Gatorskins don't hold a match to a tire like the Marathon Greenguard. You can tell by feeling the tire that the Greenguard is a heck of lot more robust than a Gatorskin; the Greenguard is a truck tire designed for heavy loads going long distances, the Gatorskin is a compromise between a racing tire and puncture resistant tire like the Greenguard and the Gator doesn't excel at either. I've used the Gators and I wasn't impressed, especially after getting 7 flats before something damaged it's fragile sidewall ending the tire's career short. The older version of the Specialized Armadillo All Condition tire at the time had the toughest sidewalls in the industry, I actually rode one flat just to see what would happen to the sidewall, the sidewall was so strong it even protected the rim from damage, I rode it that way for 5 miles back to the house; yes some of you are thinking why didn't I just fix the tire, because the reason it got a flat was only because I had worn the tire down to the threads and beyond just to test it to find out how tough it was. Well the Marathon sidewalls are even tougher! I still have an old Armadillo and I compared them, and the sidewall is bit thicker and stiffer than an Armadillo, and the tread on the Greenguard is thicker.

Even though I commute to work I don't use the Greenguard for commuting on, that is only my touring tire, I currently use Specialized Roubaix Pro tires they haven't flatted yet but I've had a lot of tires last without flatting while commuting.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
I'm currently getting excellent service from Delta Cruiser+ in 700 x 35 fitted to my flat bar Raleigh pioneer. This gets a lot of use on really bad debris-strewn potholed urban tarmac and gravel which varies from fairly smooth hardpacked to rough with large loose stones that ping out with force as you ride over them. I do little mileage on decent smooth tarmac so flimsy tyres are no use to me. The puncture protection in the DC+ looks to be a slightly thinner version of that fitted to M+. According to Schwalbe, the original Marathon Greenguard has the same protection level to the DC+, but the protection is differently constructed, and the service life of the tyre should be longer than with DC+, so should offset the higher purchase cost.
How do you find the Greenguards for flint rejection, i.e. do the tyres seem to collect much that need to be dug out of the tread to stop them working their way through? The DC+ seems fairly good in this respect and not much gets embedded into the rubber surface.
 

bpsmith

Veteran
I'm currently getting excellent service from Delta Cruiser+ in 700 x 35 fitted to my flat bar Raleigh pioneer. This gets a lot of use on really bad debris-strewn potholed urban tarmac and gravel which varies from fairly smooth hardpacked to rough with large loose stones that ping out with force as you ride over them. I do little mileage on decent smooth tarmac so flimsy tyres are no use to me. The puncture protection in the DC+ looks to be a slightly thinner version of that fitted to M+. According to Schwalbe, the original Marathon Greenguard has the same protection level to the DC+, but the protection is differently constructed, and the service life of the tyre should be longer than with DC+, so should offset the higher purchase cost.
How do you find the Greenguards for flint rejection, i.e. do the tyres seem to collect much that need to be dug out of the tread to stop them working their way through? The DC+ seems fairly good in this respect and not much gets embedded into the rubber surface.
Schwalbe’s own site rates the Delta Cruiser as having a puncture protection level of 3, out of 7.

A glance through their flimsy road tyres shows them from at least level 4 up to level 6.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Schwalbe’s own site rates the Delta Cruiser as having a puncture protection level of 3, out of 7.

A glance through their flimsy road tyres shows them from at least level 4 up to level 6.
Neither statement seems correct to me: DC+ is not DC and DC+ is rated 5 out of 7 by Schwalbe. The Lugano is level 3, as are Road Cruiser and the venerable HS-159 and many others.
 

GuyBoden

Guru
Location
Warrington
I've had Marathon+ on the rear of my winter bike for about two plus years and no punctures, I ride about 140(ish) miles a week. They are difficult to get on my wheels, but this must depend on your rim type, I coat both the tyre and wheel in washing up liquid, so they slip on easier and I use the Spa cycles strap method.

Concerning tyre feel, I think UK road surfaces are the real problem not tyres.
 

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
I don't use the Marathon Plus but I think mine are similar which are the Marathon GreenGuard.

I use those on my touring bike and I got to say...I like them. The odd thing is they are heavy tires of course, but they roll really well and I can't even tell I have heavy tires on, nor do they feel like wood tires, in fact with touring weight on they feel quite nice, now if I ride the bike without any extra weight I reduce the tire pressure to 45 front and 70 rear, but when I add my gear of 45 pounds approximately (I weigh 175 with clothes and the bike weighs 25) I raise the pressure to 60 front and 85 rear.
That's very interesting, thanks.

For my old tourer I have two identical sets of wheels, one with Marathon Greenguard and one with Gatorskins. The Marathons definitely feel more sluggish and I feel more fatigued after a ride - and I've assumed it's due to the stiffer sidewalls. But, I've been using higher pressure than you and riding with almost no baggage, so that might be something to do with it. Next time I have the Marathons on, I'll try lower pressure.
 

bpsmith

Veteran
Neither statement seems correct to me: DC+ is not DC and DC+ is rated 5 out of 7 by Schwalbe. The Lugano is level 3, as are Road Cruiser and the venerable HS-159 and many others.
Such is true. I missed the + sign. Thanks for correcting.

It just proves the same point though. There are as many tourer style tyres with poor protection as there are road tyres.

My point was that people state road tyres are “Flimsy” when the manufacturers websites themselves prove otherwise. ;)
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
Such is true. I missed the + sign. Thanks for correcting.

It just proves the same point though. There are as many tourer style tyres with poor protection as there are road tyres.

My point was that people state road tyres are “Flimsy” when the manufacturers websites themselves prove otherwise. ;)

There is certainly a lot less rubber in the typical road pattern tyre, otherwise there would not be such a significant weight difference. It is true though that some of them do offer a respectable degree of puncture protection, but it would take a lot to convince me that they are the equal of a touring tyre in terms of service life.
 

bpsmith

Veteran
There is certainly a lot less rubber in the typical road pattern tyre, otherwise there would not be such a significant weight difference. It is true though that some of them do offer a respectable degree of puncture protection, but it would take a lot to convince me that they are the equal of a touring tyre in terms of service life.
Now that’s a different question. Used on the same terrain, I would imagine the Tourer would indeed last longer due to said additional rubber, rather than flimsiness of the road tyre.
 

Tilley

Über Member
Location
Bristol
Anyone got an opinion on the Marathon 365 tyre, I'm thinking of it as a potential replacement for the rear tyre on a tadpole trike, currently running the Mad Mike BMX tyre.
 

NickWi

Guru
I've just taken the Marathon Plus off my bike, just too heavy.

My bike (an Orbea Gain E-Bike) originally came with 40mm gravel tyres which were okay, but I wanted something narrower for the summer. As it happened I had a pair of 32mm Marathon Plus destined for my Tandem, but not yet fitted, so I put them on the Orbea. They seemed to ride okay with neither cause for complaint or recommendation and I rode a couple of hundred miles with them on it. However, after doing an Audax on it a few weeks ago I came to the conclusion they were just too heavy. Despite having the, err, advantage of the motor on hills, you could just feel the weight of the wheels on the hills and when accelerating. The weekend before last I ditched them for something much lighter, the new Pirelli P Zero 4S in 28mm. They knocked a whole 1Kg off the total weight of the bike, but more importantly it took1/2kg off the rotational mass of each wheel.

I did another Audax last weekend and wow what a difference! This has made the whole bike feel livelier, climb better and generally roll along a lot more comfortably. Okay I accept there is a lot less puncture resistance, but Pirelli do build some in and I can live with the greater risk of a puncture for the benefit of a much nicer ride and the improvement less rolling resistance will do for the battery range.

The Plus's will go on the Tandem in due course and on that the weight penalty won't matter, but having suffered punctures on a fully loaded tandem (complete with an Arai drum brake that has to be disconnected with nuts & bolts), the extra protection will definitely be appreciated.
 

froze

Über Member
That's very interesting, thanks.

For my old tourer I have two identical sets of wheels, one with Marathon Greenguard and one with Gatorskins. The Marathons definitely feel more sluggish and I feel more fatigued after a ride - and I've assumed it's due to the stiffer sidewalls. But, I've been using higher pressure than you and riding with almost no baggage, so that might be something to do with it. Next time I have the Marathons on, I'll try lower pressure.

Keep in mind that Gatorskins are lighter in weight because they don't have anywhere near the puncture resistance nor the tread life that the Marathons have, also Gatorskin Duraskin sidewalls are very thin and flimsy which attributes to the tires smoother ride but it also makes the tire much more prone to sidewall damage then any other tire on the market that's not a Conti, almost the entire line of Conti road tires have thin flimsy sidewalls and the Duraskin sidewall is not designed to take much damage. Also a smoother riding tire feels faster when in reality it may not be, in fact the Gatorskin rolling resistance takes 20.2 watts to turn with 100 psi whereas the Marathon Greenguard takes only 1.1 watt more...you cannot feel 1.1 watts, the very least amount of watts a human can perceive is 3 watts, now a 1 watt difference could make or break a 100 mile race by about 10 seconds but neither of those tires are racing tires so gaining 10 seconds over 100 miles is not even remotely important nor remotely noticeable; what you are feeling is the smoother ride of the Gatorskin. And when you think about it, only losing 1 watt of energy over a tire that is about 450 grams lighter is truly amazing.

The sidewall thickness of the Gatorskin is just .7 mm thick whereas the Marathon Greenguard is 1.65 mm thick; the tread thickness is 3.2 mm thick for the Gator and 7.3 for the Greenguard. The Marathon plus a bit thicker in the tread and sidewall vs the Greenguard. Thicker sidewalls do make installing them more difficult which is something to keep in mind, however also keep in mind that a tough to install tire will be tougher to come off the rim if a blowout occurs, and for that reason I prefer tough to install tires. I found the Marathon to be difficult to install so I heated them in an over at 125 degrees for about 20 minutes which made it a bit less difficult, also using a tool called the VAR Tyre RP-42500 lever makes putting on that last 2 or so inches a snap.

According to recent tests the top three tires for puncture resistance in order of least to best is #3 Schwalbe Marathon Greenguard; #2 Schwalbe Marathon Plus; and #1 the Vittoria Randonneur...but this tire is noticeably slower using a full 12 watts more than the Schwalbe tires, I'm not going to want to haul 45 or pounds of weight around and be slowed down some more by tires! So while the Vittoria may have the best puncture resistance on the market I'll go with the Schwalbe.

Speaking of rolling resistance, you can reduce rolling resistance by 1 to 2 watts on any tire by simply using liberal amount of talc on the tube before you install; and you can reduce it another 2 to 3 watts using latex tubes but I find these tubes to be too fragile plus they're difficult to patch.

Because I only use those tires on my touring bike, and since I don't like to have flats when I tour especially in the rear I've installed a flat liner in the rear tire only called the Clean Motion RhinoDillos, there is no test for rolling resistance using these liners. I use only Specialized Turbo tubes which don't weigh as much as a lot of other regular tubes, and their consistency is good and their valves are high quality.
 

Truth

Boardman Hybrid Team 2016 , Boardman Hybrid Comp
Location
Coseley
Not keen on the Gatorskins then :laugh:
Good call on the sidewalls as I have a bit of damage on my Gatorskins there I noticed yesterday.
 
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