Schwalbe or Continental?

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Location
Loch side.
I see what you mean, but our bikes need to be fairly good ie: reliably ridable to the next appointment/shop/pickup in most conditions: we aren't after high performance tyres. Locally cycle ways are probably about 60% tarmacked to some degree with the rest mostly gravel, and we need tyres that will reliably let us go over that, and not get too bunged up if there's mud. If they can work on packed snow when there was an unexpected snowfall so much the better.

The best tyres I had for this were some thin Michelin "Wildgripper city"'s: these were so much better than anything else I used that I kept them for nearly fifteen years long after they were worn out and only replaced them when it became clear they would likely burst any moment. Now I use spikes in winter but prefer not to change them until I have to.

Andy, you've basically just re-iterated your search for the impossible. You've made up your mind.

Anyway, we used to call those Michelins you mention, Wildslippers. They were horrible. Tiny, deep knobblies that squirmed so badly you could actually feel the understeer when turning on tarmac.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
I had continentals on my cannondale and I loved it for a few different reasons but I always reckoned the tyres were perfect for the bike but after a blowout a long way from home I had to put on what I could get on the rear and it was a Marathon plus. Today was my first real ride on it and it felt very different and will be coming off at the merest hint of better weather.
I've seen blowouts on group rides. Always Continentals as far as I recall, most often Gatorskins. I don't feel confident in their sidewalls with the local flints.
 

Domus

Guru
Location
Sunny Radcliffe
Had Gatorskins on my Ribble Cross from new, first winter ride two years ago 2 visits in 10 minutes, one front one rear. Really struggled to get them back on.
Swapped them for Schwalbe Durano DDs nothing since.
My new Ribble has Mavic's own tubeless tyres nothing as yet, will replace the goo before riding it again in the spring.
 

Slick

Guru
I've seen blowouts on group rides. Always Continentals as far as I recall, most often Gatorskins. I don't feel confident in their sidewalls with the local flints.
Your probably right, mine weren't skins and they rolled really well. In their defence, they were trying to tell me there was something wrong by going down every 3rd ride for no apparent reason that I could find before finally splitting when I needed them most.
 
@Yellow Saddle I would be interested to hear what tyres you use on your bikes in winter. I'll state that my main concern in winter is not speed/efficiency, but staying upright and mobile. (Changing tyres in freezing conditions is a nightmare)

Yellow Saddle said:
A completely smooth tyre works perfectly well in all situations where the substrate (road) is harder than the tyre and any tread detracts from the tyre's performance in every way.

Ice can be harder than the tyre I imagine. What are your thoughts on studded tyres in icy conditions given that most studded tyres also have tread pattern? Does the tread deduct from the performance of the tyre, in order to be marketable to a gullible public who believe tread is best? The tread on marathon winters for example is too shallow to help with navigating snow. Also, I'm under no illusion that the tread helps with ice, that'll be the studs.

Am I better to switch from 35mm tyres to 28mm studded tyres in deep snow?
 
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Threevok

Growing old disgracefully
Location
South Wales
Am I better to switch from 35mm tyres to 28mm studded tyres in deep snow?

Every tyre in soft snow behaves like any other tyre in soft snow - useless

I find cheap OEM kenda tyres from halfords BSO MTBs are the best I have tried - run at low pressure

My Ice Spiker Pros only come into their own on hard packed snow and ice
 
Yes, that's probably a fair assessment!

It's one thing getting to work on fresh snow, and another getting back when it's rutted and refreezing and ice-like.
 

Threevok

Growing old disgracefully
Location
South Wales
Yes, that's probably a fair assessment!

It's one thing getting to work on fresh snow, and another getting back when it's rutted and refreezing and ice-like.

That said, dependent on the depth of the snow, a narrower tyre may very well be better at cutting through the soft stuff, to the tarmac underneath.

I got passed with ease - back last year, by a road bike with thin tyres, while I squirmed around on my 2.35 Ice Spikers.

Thick slush has the same effect
 
Location
Loch side.
@Yellow Saddle I would be interested to hear what tyres you use on your bikes in winter. I'll state that my main concern in winter is not speed/efficiency, but staying upright and mobile. (Changing tyres in freezing conditions is a nightmare)

Ice can be harder than the tyre I imagine. What are your thoughts on studded tyres in icy conditions given that most studded tyres also have tread pattern? Does the tread deduct from the performance of the tyre, in order to be marketable to a gullible public who believe tread is best? The tread on marathon winters for example is too shallow to help with navigating snow. Also, I'm under no illusion that the tread helps with ice, that'll be the studs.

Am I better to switch from 35mm tyres to 28mm studded tyres in deep snow?

I don't change tyres for winter but use the same smooth tread tyres all year round. However, I avoid black ice because I have other options when the roads are iced. Nothing but studded tyres will work on black ice.

Don't worry about the tread pattern on the studded tyre. They're there for perceptions and deception and I would imagine that you won't find a smooth studded tyre in anyway. If on the other hand, the treads are very aggressive then the tyre could be of benefit on both iced roads and mud. But I doubt it, because the studs need to be mounted on firm rubber. Do you perhaps have a photo of what you have in mind?

The tread deducts from the performance of a tyre in several ways, all or none may be applicable to your type of roads. Inverse tread on tyres intended for tarmac roads increases rolling resistance but not cornering ability and slightly reduces durability. Lugged tread reduces steering ability, increases rolling resistance massively and of course, adversely affects durability.

In deep snow, I doubt a couple of mills will make a difference. There will be difference between a fatbike tyre and a 23mm, but I can't say what because the term deep snow is ambiguous. Perhaps the snow is firm enough to allow the tyre to float, perhaps not, etc etc. I'm sure you see the number of variables one can dream up. If you currently have studded tyres, just stick with whatever they are, you won't improve things by throwing money at it.

Winter tyres for cars make sense if your winter conditions are persistently in the 5 degree C region and below. That's not because car winter tyres can grip on ice - they can't. Nor is it because they have more aggressive tread. They grip better on asphalt because they are softer than summer tyres used in cold conditions and a softer tyre squeezes into microscopic road voids better than a hard one. The aggressive thread helps to make the tread squirm more and again, it then "finds" more voids in the road to fill and switch on the adhesive force, which is Van der Waal's.

If the tyres are designed for snow, they will be narrower than the car's stock summer tyres to cut through the snow.

It is an exact science but applied to very, very inexact and inconsistent conditions.
 
Thanks, I really appreciate you elaborating. As you say, there are simply too many variables in weather conditions, even within the time frame of a day to pick any one optimal solution.

There are no models of tyre I had in mind in particular. I currently switch between Schwable G-One in summer (38mm) as my commute involves some single-track when it's lighter in evenings, then to Schwable Marathon Winter (35mm) in the darker months (when I almost exclusively stick to roads.)

I don't have any option other than work from home when road conditions get abysmal. I tend just leave the studded tyres on all winter in case I miss the forecast or reports of black ice on the roads. I can't work from home too often, otherwise the boss gets twitchy, but I can usually muster 2 or 3 on the trot if needs be. I haven't had a particularly bad winter, although last year was the worst I've ridden in yet.
 

iandg

Legendary Member
I'll throw Vittoria into the argument. Use Randonneur on my winter bike, Randonneur and Randonneur Trail for touring, and Adventure Trail tubeless on my Cross- Check.

.....and Rubino Pro are great summer tyres
 
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iandg

Legendary Member
You haven't contributed to the discussion other than to say what you do. Open a window to your thinking please.

Randonneur - roll ok, not the best but I only experience slight drop in speed overowinter. Good puncture protection, andand usually buy them for less than £15 a tyre (the reason I first bought a pair). No real issues since so I've stayed with them as 1st choice of winter road tyre

Randonneur Trail - good puncture protection, slower rolling but ok for loaded touring when using rougher roads and broken trails - cost me less than £15 a tyre

Adventure Trail - good puncture protection with re-inforced sidewalls, faster rolling than Randonneur Trail because of centre tread design and chunky edges grip when cornering on gravel. Can be used tubeless. Bought these for trail/gravel riding on my Cross-Check after ripping the side walls on 3 WTB Nanos over a few months in the summer on Isle of Lewis trails they've been on the bike since early October with no problems. Cost about £25 each. I don't usually use this bike on the road but it is the only bike I've brought south with me for Xmas. I've put up some fast times on the Mabie Forest Trails over the last few weeks but have been aware of the drag (a few kph slower average over 40km) when I've used the bike on the road).
 
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Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Randonneur - roll ok, good puncture protection, can usually buy them for less than £15 a tyre
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/vittoria-randonneur-2015
"Test Summary
Conclusion: 2 / 5 Not Recommended"
"Although puncture resistance of the tread area of the Vittoria Randonneur is the highest of all tires tested to date, rolling resistance is just way too high to recommend this tire. The Schwalbe Marathon Plus (read review) has a Puncture Factor Tread score that is very close to the Randonneur (117 Vs 120), a much better Puncture Factor Sidewall score (8 Vs 4), but a rolling resistance that is close to 30% lower.
"The good part seems to be that the Randonneur can be found at a very low price. Together with the high puncture resistance and low weight, it might be OK if you don't care about rolling resistance."
 

iandg

Legendary Member
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/tour-reviews/vittoria-randonneur-2015
"Test Summary
Conclusion: 2 / 5 Not Recommended"
"Although puncture resistance of the tread area of the Vittoria Randonneur is the highest of all tires tested to date, rolling resistance is just way too high to recommend this tire. The Schwalbe Marathon Plus (read review) has a Puncture Factor Tread score that is very close to the Randonneur (117 Vs 120), a much better Puncture Factor Sidewall score (8 Vs 4), but a rolling resistance that is close to 30% lower.
"The good part seems to be that the Randonneur can be found at a very low price. Together with the high puncture resistance and low weight, it might be OK if you don't care about rolling resistance."

I still manage to churn out rides faster than 25kph on the 25c version and haven't puntured since I hit a pothole that wrote a wheel off in Feb 2016. Don't ride the bike all the time but probably over 3000 KM covered. (edited)

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https://www.cyclingabout.com/puncture-resistant-tyre-lab-testing/
Choosing Your Puncture Resistant Touring Tyres
If you never want to think about punctures again, I’d suggest using:
Vittoria Randonneur ($30)
Schwalbe Marathon Plus
– Continental E.Contact
 
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