Serious bodging on my second hand bike discovered

[Justinitus]

I have worked out that most hubs (even Shimano) are set up too tight. They might be ok on the bench, but once the QR is done up it compresses the axle and over-loads the bearings. I now back off the hubs on new bikes and haven't had a problem since.

Exactly, me too. I back mine off so that there is the very slightest bit of play in the axle when on the bench, then when fitted back on the bike the qr/nuts take this play out and the wheel spins much better than before.

 

[Smokin Joe]

just shows how good copper grease is. cooper being softer than steel, but agreed not the best grease for the job

There is no copper in copper grease. It get's it's name from it's colour.

 

[johnnyb47]

Sounds like a typical specialised hub to me. I would suggest the hub had not been opened and 'bodged' but what you are seeing is the result of the hub being shipped too tight at the start and the glittery brown grease is the result of the subsequent damage and metal particles being generated.

I have worked out that most hubs (even Shimano) are set up too tight. They might be ok on the

Hmmmm this has got me thinking. Just a couple of weeks back i felt some free play in my back wheel and i tightened the play out being very careful as to not overtightening it "Maybe i did" and ended up with this problem

 

[Deleted member 26715]

There is no copper in copper grease. It get's it's name from it's colour.

Are you sure? https://hycote.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Copper-grease.pdf

 

[I like Skol]

Are you sure? https://hycote.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Copper-grease.pdf

It only mentions 'copper coloured' in that spec sheet as far as I can see.

BIL is an MOT inspector and automotive repairs instructor and has recently informed me that presenting a car for MOT with copper grease on the brake components is now an automatic failure. This has been changed due to the continual reduction in the copper content, to the point that it is now only 'copper coloured' and also made from such cheap base materials in many cases that it has an unsuitably low melting point. He told me that you can now only use the proper product for the job.

I haven't checked this info independently, but I have no reason to doubt it.

EDIT: Apologies, does mention copper content, but not how much.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

It only mentions 'copper coloured' in that spec sheet as far as I can see.

A suspension of copper, graphite and hydrocarbon solvent in a solvent refined mineral oil, dispersed in a butane/isobutane/propane propellant.

As to MOT I would ask your BIL where it is in the manual, only thing I could find was in Section 1.1.14 Brake discs and drums subsection b Contaminated with oil, grease etc. is a Major fail. Which is understandable, but not because the sliders have copper slip on them

 

[rogerzilla]

Cera-Tec grease is the stuff for the back of car brake pads. It's also pretty good in coaster brakes (just not the bearings).

 

[johnnyb47]

This is getting really strange now.
Barely a week has passed since my rear wheel started grumbling, and seting off for another ride today the dreaded grinding noise appeared again. My first thought was that the back wheel was to blame again, and limped the bike home slowly through the traffic.
But as the rear wheel has now been serviced and re greased i thought it odd that it was playing up again. After a good look around it turned to be the front wheel that was playing up. After a strip down of the hub i found exactly the same problem as the rear. Im sitting on the fence as to whether copper grease has been used, but on the one side of hub the grease appears to be copper coloured whilst the other side had normal grease in it. Saying that though, there wasn't much grease full stop in there so it was a thorough clean and re grease of the front hub. I'm at loss to why this has happened. The copper grease (or whatever it was) was apparent on the same side as the rear. Im starting to think its water ingress from maybe the use of a jet wash from the previous owner. Just done 40 miles and its seems ok (touch wood lol)

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

@Globalti sounds like my mates landy. Many a differential and transfer unit have ended that way.

I've got one that hasn't had any effective synchromesh on the main box for about 15 years. Every gearchange in every gear is a double-declutch! I keep threatening to sort it out when it blows up but it just keeps going. Can't complain really considering it was made in the early 1960's and I don't think it has ever been taken apart before. Rover built their stuff to last in those days!

 

[fossyant]

OP - your hubs have had water in and rusted. Normally affects one side first ! New hubs on cup and cone.

 

[fossyant]

Copper grease is known as copper slip - I have a 20 year old tub in the garage. It's certainly not a grease. I use a little dab on my spark plugs to ensure they come out again. Don't use it on the bike, just normal lithium grease.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Hi.
Last year i bought a very nice Specialized Allez bike. The seller told me that he had only covered around 50 miles on it and decided cycling was not for him and then relegated the bike to the garage never to be seen again until he sold it on to me.
The bike was in remarkable unused condition when i got it and ive now put around 5 k on it over my years worth of ownership The other day though the rear wheel hub started making some very peculiar noises. Creaking and cracking was the best way to explain the sound.
My ex brother in law has a wealth of practical experience with bikes, and kindly offered to take a look for me ,and discovered that the rear hub had been packed with copper grease instead of normal bearing grease. After cleaning it all out it was obvious the copper grease hasn't been to kind to the bearings or bearing face. The small particle of copper have left the bearing faces rough and slightly pitted.. As a temporary measure he reassemble it back together with some fresh grease and has offered to rebuild my wheel with a new hub when the time its needed. Its now running nice and smoothly again, but for how long is anybodies guess really. I think the moral of the story, is to always expect even new second hand bikes can hide some sort of hidden bodgery practices amongst there shinny looking components.. Granted its not the end of the world and can easily and thankfully for me be ,cheaply fixed, but i though i would just share my experience on here..
All the best
Johnny

Can you describe the sound you heard as fire burning dry grass or hay? A soft crackling? If so, then it is water ingress in the hub. The grease turns a brown colour from the rust particles released when the hub rotates whilst rusting. You won't see actual water coming out since it is mostly emulsified and the surplus has been squeezed out.

Copper slip/grease/compound will NOT pit or roughen a bearing face, Bearing pitting is caused by water, since the water will take out the iron particles from the steel alloy matrix and leave telltale holes. If you don't believe me, try making a drill bit or chisel from copper and try and "pit" a piece of steel. Or simply, just use a copper roofing nail and bang it into a piece of steel. Report back.

 

[ColinJ]

I have worked out that most hubs (even Shimano) are set up too tight. They might be ok on the bench, but once the QR is done up it compresses the axle and over-loads the bearings. I now back off the hubs on new bikes and haven't had a problem since.

I wouldn't have believed that if I hadn't done it myself!

I thought that I had my MTB rear wheel set up properly. It span nicely on the stand but I managed to pull the rear wheel of my road bike out so I went round all of my bikes (over!-)tightening their rear QRs to make sure it didn't happen to them. I did a couple of rides on the MTB and thought that it felt really sluggish. Once I put it back on the stand I discovered that the wheel would only spin for about 1/2 rev once I stopped rotating the cranks! I adjusted the QR properly and it was back to spinning nicely again.

 

[johnnyb47]

@Yellow Saddle
I couldn't of explained what you said any better. What you say is exactly what's been going on with my poor old wheels. They've all been cleaned and repacked with fresh grease. The rear has covered around 300 miles and ive covered around 140 miles on the front over the last 3 days and all seems good with them. I don't know how long they will last, but i will use them until they start grumbling again and decide what to do with them. It's anybodies guess as to how long they will last and will keep an eye out for some bargain wheels in the meantime..
Once again many thanks to you Yellow Saddle

 

[Yellow Saddle]