Seriously strong cycling buddies

[CXRAndy]

Rider weight, power and W/kg are all intertwined.

I perfectly understand W/Kg.

You are ignoring reality, this isnt a mathematical paper exercise.

Real men and women have different weights , power and W/kg, but they fall into categories of sprinter, climber, rouleur etc.

The steeper the gradient has a greater drag on heavier riders.

Eg Chris Froome, who is a superb climber one of the worlds best, but overall he thrives on longer less steep alpine climbs where his greater power benefits him. However on a really steep climbs Froome does get dropped by super lightweight riders.

Go check it out

I suggest you watch a few varied races and see which riders win.

Have a few races within Zwift, race in events which dont suit your talents and see where you finish.

 

[Stompier]

Rider weight, power and W/kg are all intertwined.

You really are stating the obvious with some of this stuff. Of course they are. Weight and power is how you establish w/kg.

I perfectly understand W/Kg.

Seriously? - pretty much everything you've posted here suggests that you don't.

Real men and women have different weights , power and W/kg, but they fall into categories of sprinter, climber, rouleur etc.

Again, that's obvious and I'm not sure what point you think you are making.

I suggest you watch a few varied races and see which riders win.

Have a few races within Zwift, race in events which dont suit your talents and see where you finish.

You seem to be extrapolating your Zwift experiences and comparing them to real world racing. Ironically, you said I was 'ignoring reality' earlier Apart from that, I can't really add to what I said earlier. Go back over it and let me know which bit you are taking issue with and I'll try to be clearer.

 

[CXRAndy]

You seem to be extrapolating your Zwift experiences and comparing them to real world racing. Ironically, you said I was 'ignoring reality' earlier Apart from that, I can't really add to what I said earlier. Go back over it and let me know which bit you are taking issue with and I'll try to be clearer

Im not just using my own experience, I've seen many a race including the professionals racing Zwift.

exactly you're ignoring reality. Saying if different weight riders can have equal W/kg then they will climb at equal speed, but you said sustain that effort.

That's where real life kicks in and everything I explained has a bearing upon performance

 

[Stompier]

Saying if different weight riders can have equal W/kg then they will climb at equal speed, but you said sustain that effort.

It's clear enough, I thought. If two riders both make 4 w/kg, but one can sustain it for 20 minutes, while the other can sustain it for 25 minutes then the guy who can sustain it for longer will have the advantage on a 25 minute climb. The individual riders' weights are irrelevant.

I've never ridden on Zwift, but I have ridden many actual road races over the years.

 

[CXRAndy]

So did you do well in races that were not your speciality, or did you favoir events that suited your attributes?

 

[Stompier]

So did you do well in races that were not your speciality, or did you favoir events that suited your attributes?

I don't see the relevance of that question. Plus, I never knew (along with pretty much everyone else at the time) what my FTP or w/kg was when I was racing - and I still don't.

 

[CXRAndy]

I don't see the relevance of that question. Plus, I never knew (along with pretty much everyone else at the time) what my FTP or w/kg was when I was racing - and I still don't.

There you go again. You're ignoring real life. If you were a lightweight rider, did you struggle against bigger more powerful or were you a heavier rider and struggled on the hills?

 

[Stompier]

There you go again. You're ignoring real life. If you were a lightweight rider, did you struggle against bigger more powerful or were you a heavier rider and struggled on the hills?

I don't see the purpose of relaying my racing history to you, if I'm honest. Most amateur riders back then were all-rounders. And to a greater or lesser extent, they still are.

The issue in hand is your understanding (or lack of it) of w/kg - specifically that a light rider and a heavy rider can both compete up a climb if they have the same/similar w/kg.

 

[CXRAndy]

The issue in hand is your understanding (or lack of it) of w/kg - specifically that a light rider and a heavy rider can both compete up a climb if they have the same/similar w/kg.

Only for short climbs, explain what happens on a 30 min climb where both sprinters and climbers arrive together at the bottom of the climb?

Better still, tell me where you would expect a heavy rider compared to a lightweight rider to finish going up Alp d Huez. Its around a 40 min climb for professionals. Dont forget they arrive at the bottom together, this is a race dont forget, just to remind you.

 

[Stompier]

Only for short climbs, explain what happens on a 30 min climb where both sprinters and climbers arrive together at the bottom of the climb?

I don't know why you keep talking about sprinters. They are not relevant to this discussion. I think we need to go back to basics here. Watts per kilo (w/kg) is calculated by dividing your bodyweight with your FTP - aka your maximum sustainable power. A heavier rider will need a higher FTP to achieve the same w/kg as a lighter rider, obviously. But if they end up being the same, then they are the same.

Sprint power - ie maximal power - is just that - and can typically be delivered for only a matter of a few seconds at most. A sprint specialist is unlikely to have the same w/kg as a climber. Which is why the objective of most climbers on mountain stages are just hoping to make the time cut.

As I said before, the issue seems to be your appreciation of these differences. Once you get that, we can move on.

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

You're aware that professionals (and likely other levels) tend to split on hillier days and the spent team members, sprinters,injured/recovering riders will group up and ride at pace to finish within the time cutoff. I believe it's called L'autobus

Anyway, popcorn

 

[CXRAndy]

Sprinters are invariably heavier than climbers, Im using professional as the standard because, both sprinters and climbers will be of equal fitness, so that variable is removed.

Now explain what happens compared if a sprinter rides up Alp d Huez at his FTP and a climber does the same. Who wins?

Don't forget now both are at their physical peak and are riding at their FTP, who wins?

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

Sprinters are invariably heavier than climbers, Im using professional as the standard because, both sprinters and climbers will be of equal fitness, so that variable is removed.

Now explain what happens compared if a sprinter rides up Alp d Huez at his FTP and a climber does the same. Who wins?

Don't forget now both are at their physical peak and are riding at their FTP, who wins?

The one with the slightly higher W/KG

 

[Twilkes]

I was talking to a track cyclist once, who said he had all his sprinting watts in his right leg and all his climbing watts in his left leg, for better negotiating the banked curves.

 

[Stompier]

Sprinters are invariably heavier than climbers, Im using professional as the standard because, both sprinters and climbers will be of equal fitness, so that variable is removed.

They won't be of 'equal fitness' - because they will both have trained for different purposes - one for sprints and one for climbing. Do you even know what you mean by 'equal fitness'?

Now explain what happens compared if a sprinter rides up Alp d Huez at his FTP and a climber does the same. Who wins?

Don't forget now both are at their physical peak and are riding at their FTP, who wins?

You gotta let go of the 'sprinter' thing. Not sure why you have now switched to 'ftp' when the established measure of climbing power is w/kg. But the winner would be the one with the best sustainable w/kg, obviously. Or the one who didn't puncture and wait for a wheel change.