Should a cyclist be allowed on the road

[GrasB]

In theory it's all well & good but actually looking out of the window at cyclists just going about their business looked to me like the worst offenders for being complete pricks were giving the impression they were some of the most seasoned & experienced cyclists about.

 

[summerdays]

I think Bikeability should be available to all school children ... its a good start but it isn't the only answer... if the children don't regularly use the stuff they have learnt they forget most of it. I certainly wouldn't want a ban on cycling until they had done it... my youngest - year 4, has done his Level 1 -playground only, and isn't due to do his Level 2 until he is in Year 6 - though a few get to do it at the end of year 5. He has cycled to school 99% of the time since he started school 5 years ago ... on the pavement until a year ago. That's a lot of experience he would have lost otherwise.

Similarly with the Highway code, my children have been given a small cut down version of it several times through either doing Bikeability or other things such as how lessons on cross the road. They look at it and then they forget it. Its just the same with motorists... they learn it to get them through the test and then forget it all... if we organised a test on here now most people wouldn't know the entire Highway code and yet we are probably a sub-group of the population who are more exposed to it through the discussions on here.

 

[BentMikey]

Mike I would be interested in understanding what your concept of danger is?
And why would training make cyclists less safe? I see you "educating" RLJ cyclists all the time, would training not help educate them also? How many times have we read gripes about POB's? and how many times have we read that reading Cyclecraft would make POB's better cyclists?

IMO I don't think that mandatory training would be realistic or enforcible unless you made it impossible to buy a bike without having some kind of cycling licence first. I would like to see more free voluntary training schemes advertised though as that can only be a good thing.

It's because safety for cyclists comes first of all through safety in numbers. Training will have an order of magnitude or more less effect than large numbers of cyclists.

Besides which, cyclists aren't really a danger to other people, and for the most part they aren't a danger to themselves either. Introducing that mandatory training will reduce the numbers of cyclists, having a far far bigger reduction in safety through this than any improvement through training.

It's drivers that need training - they are the ones that kill and seriously injure hundreds of thousands of people a year. I think that training should come via a massive increase in traffic police, and enforcement of the current laws. I'd be quite happy for cyclists, and all other road users, to be treated equally on breaking laws.

 

[summerdays]

It's because safety for cyclists comes first of all through safety in numbers. Training will have an order of magnitude or more less effect than large numbers of cyclists.

Besides which, cyclists aren't really a danger to other people, and for the most part they aren't a danger to themselves either. Introducing that mandatory training will reduce the numbers of cyclists, having a far far bigger reduction in safety through this than any improvement through training.

It's drivers that need training - they are the ones that kill and seriously injure hundreds of thousands of people a year. I think that training should come via a massive increase in traffic police, and enforcement of the current laws. I'd be quite happy for cyclists, and all other road users, to be treated equally on breaking laws.

That's why I quite like Vike's idea ... more cyclists though maybe temporary, but a greater understanding of what its like to be on a bike when they go onto to become motorists.

 

[magnatom]

Risk. It is all about risk. Priorities should always be set depending on where the greatest risk exists. Cars/drivers are a significantly, SIGNIFICANTLY greater risk than bikes/cyclists. Fact.

Perception. Now that is a different thing all together. Very often people perceive cyclists as a risk and a nuisance. Unfortunately human perception isn't the best, especially when it comes to determining risk.

Education. That's the answer. Education of non-cyclists, i.e. what the real risks and benefits are, and education of cyclists, i.e. what the best road practices are.

Should it be necessary for cyclists to have taken a test? Actually I like the idea, but practically it would never work. So many people would flout it and it would be impractical to enforce. Should cyclists be encouraged to take courses/tests, absolutely.

However, the greatest benefit to all, would not be the introduction of tests and training for cyclists, but the introduction of a cycle 'proficiency' part to the driving test (for those medically able). Not only would drivers be more aware, but cycling standards would improve as well (how many of us cycle).

Anyway, thats my 3p worth.

 

[Davidc]

It's a good idea, but how can you enforce it? A bike isn't a vehicle (according to the law) and anyone can get on one and just start pedalling! Driving a motor vehicle is somewhat more involved.

This is wrong.

A bike IS a vehicle under both UK and international law.

While anyone is riding a bike they are subject to all law which applies to all vehicles.
There are also parts of the law which are vehicle specific to pedal cycles.

A bike rider is not subject to law which applies only to motor vehicles, such as speed limits, or to law which applies only to other specific classes of road user.

 

[Davidc]

Without first proving they understand the highway code?

Marin, Lee, please feel free to join in!
Should a cyclist by right have to pass either a written or practical test before venturing out onto the road?

If they did, how would it be implemented, what would be the benefits, could you license cyclists?

Good ideas, but in practice:

How do you enforce these if implemented?
How do you introduce these without discouraging cycling?

A more general requirement for school pupils to study and know the highway code might be more sensible and practical. Apart from anything else many may not chose to use bikes but all will use roads in some way or another. How to behave as a pedestrian is much more universal.

 

[PpPete]

A bike IS a vehicle under both UK and international law.

Isn't..... according to my local plod.
David - can you provide a citation please, love to get this straight.

Vike, like the idea of a general "Road" licence..... but wonder what you'd propose for someone who gets banned from driving a motor vehicle for accumulation of points/DUI/dangerous or careless driving? Would they also be banned from cycling?

 

[Davidc]

Isn't..... according to my local plod.
David - can you provide a citation please, love to get this straight.

Vike, like the idea of a general "Road" licence..... but wonder what you'd propose for someone who gets banned from driving a motor vehicle for accumulation of points/DUI/dangerous or careless driving? Would they also be banned from cycling?

Please inform your local plod that he is wrong, and should learn the facts in this matter.

A pedal cycle IS A ROAD VEHICLE. It is specifically defined as such in both UK and international road traffic law.

There is no room for argument or dispute in this - it is a simple statement of fact.

 

[BentMikey]

A bicycle is a vehicle - it's defined as a carriage in law.

 

[Vikeonabike]

Vike, like the idea of a general "Road" licence..... but wonder what you'd propose for someone who gets banned from driving a motor vehicle for accumulation of points/DUI/dangerous or careless driving? Would they also be banned from cycling?

Hadn't thought this one through...I think a ban should only apply to Motor vehicles.... However if they continue, whilst cycling to collect points, it could extend the ban....

 

[Davidc]

Isn't..... according to my local plod.
David - can you provide a citation please, love to get this straight.

No, but you can have a web reference leading to the international status under the Vienna Convention on road traffic 1968.

I believe that the definition in our law goes back to a piece of 19th century case law, but I don't have the reference for it handy. Its our accession to the Vienna Convention which is most recent and therefore applies.

If you read the text you'll realise that according to that you can stop your bike being a vehicle by taking the bell off, or fitting an airzound in its place (although I suspect that Vike will just arrest you under the construction and use of vehicles regs).

 

[Davidc]

Which laws apply to all vehicles?

You can start with traffic lights
Signals from Police Officers
Lighting (different bits of the regulations apply to different vehicles though)
Compulsory signage (e g stop signs, bus lanes, one way street signs)
vehicles on pavements!
one-way streets

I can't think of any more and can't be bothered to get the Highway Code out, but you can look them up as well as I can.

I remember looking a load of these up for a club quiz night in the 1980s, and most were bits of the RTA which aren't specific to motor vehicles, horses or pedestrians. FWIW the two rounds on road issues (one on laws for bikes and one on laws for the rest) were the worst answered of all.

 

[brokenbetty]

How about:

In order to get a provisional driving license you have to have done a certain number of road hours on a bike and passed a mandatory road awareness test.

This would mostly be provided by schools (who would get resources to facilitate that of course) so the bike hours and test would be part of the national curriculum. There would be school bikes and/or bike grants for poor kids, so as a bonus it improves personal transport for families who can't afford to run a car.

Since in theory all children go to school, by the time anyone gets to 17 they should have already done as much as they need to qualify. If they've slipped through the net they'd need to sign up to an adult education bike scheme to log their necessary hours and test.

The bike stage should be presented and explained not as a step towards a better form of transport but as earning the right to control a more dangerous form of transport. During the bike stage everything should be done with the assumption that the pupil is going to be a lifelong cyclist as well as a potential driver, so as well as road sense there will be experience carrying loads, bike security, chosing the best bike for your needs, changing a puncture etc. Normalise utility biking for a generation that has little personal experience of it.

Hopefully by the time they get to 17 they are so used to using the bike for local transport that it continues to fit into their lives when they are also drivers.

Sure, the practical challenges of such a big change would be huge - not just the schools but the whole cyclising infrastrcuture gearing up (haha) to support the increase, but it's not impossible. Let's face it, governments are constantly tinkering with the education system, transport networks etc - all it takes is the will to do it.

 

[summerdays]

Isn't..... according to my local plod.
David - can you provide a citation please, love to get this straight.

What is the meaning of this road sign....:

and does it apply to cyclists?