So I'm in the market for a Ti or Reynolds 953 frame

[fossala]

To be fair, I wasn't implying or singling out that the Engima frames made overseas were made in "sweat shop", my comment was more of a sweeping generalising statement.

But why do they need to be made overseas, when we have the skill set in the UK?

To maximise profit, plain and simple.

 

[AlanW]

Sort of my point really, cheap labour and "probably" not ideal working conditions, which is why I used the term "sweat shop"....

 

[Milkfloat]

You could try having a chat with Lee Cooper in Coventry if you are passing - http://leecoopercycles.webs.com/aboutme.htm

 

[Fab Foodie]

Just a had great telephone conversation with Gareth at Brian Rourkes about my requirements etc. What an utter and complete contrast to the clown that I spoke to at Mercian.

Gareth's a star. In fact the whole team there and set-up is good.

However, if I had the cash for a bespoke 953 I'd go the whole hog and go to Swallow:
http://www.bicycles-by-design.co.uk/brand/swallow-bespoke/

The Maroon/Pale Blue bike was at Bespoke 2 years ago .... I couldn't stop dribbling ....

 

[AlanW]

What size frame are you after @AlanW ? I may have a Vann Nicholas Amazon that would suit you....

Loosely based on a 525mm seat tube, (c2c) But its the top tube length that is the key measurement for me, 540mm (c2c)

 

[User482]

You could try having a chat with Lee Cooper in Coventry if you are passing - http://leecoopercycles.webs.com/aboutme.htm

He built my Thorn Audax... which still going strong and now 20 years old.

 

[srw]

Sort of my point really, cheap labour and "probably" not ideal working conditions, which is why I used the term "sweat shop"....

Cheap by our standards, but having been given change in India when I tipped someone 50p for cutting a coconut for me I realise that different countries have very different costs of living.

As to the working conditions - I suspect a bespoke titanium welder in Asia looks rather more like the best UK LBSs than, say, the factories where all of our computers were made.

 

[AlanW]

So looking at the costs in more detail then, as a rough guide a Ti or a Reynolds 953 frame is going to be around the £2k mark give or take a few quid. That is irrespective of its made in the UK or overseas.

So which industry is it better to support, the UK or overseas?

Having worked as a buyer in a former life of course the overseas frames will be cheaper to produce for all the reasons already mentioned, yet they retail for the same price as a frame made in the UK. Again, as has already been mentioned, profit margins are the aim of the game for the people that supply them.

 

[vickster]

Buy the best frame for you from a uk company, their staff will be based in the uk as a minimum. Presumably you'll be putting modern components on it. All of which will likely be made overseas, even the wheels regardless of them being handbuilts in the uk.
You can't buy a bike that is truly British. You'll be supporting global business

 

[outlash]

IMO, the 'chinese sweat shop' with the inference is that it's inferior is just wrong. An aquaintance of mine work in the optics industry where the old 'cheap chinese crap' attitude used to prevail. But as he pointed out, the Chinese factories bought Zeiss lens grinding machines so their optics are just as good as anyone else, you just have to pay the price.

I admire your insistence of buying UK, but I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

[AlanW]

....but I think you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Not really, I am prepared to pay the going rate for the frame that I require, so circa £2k.

But my point is and prehaps I have it wrong. But lets say for example a frame from overseas costs £1k to fabricate, although I suspect its not even half that. Its then sold in the UK for £2k. I suspect that the people that have made the most profit are the middle men, not the actual production team. As already been said, cheap labour overseas.

Or..... I pay the same price for a frame, reasonably happy that what ever profit will be spread out to the man that welded it, the designer that crafted it and the person that sold/sized it up for me. Often all the same person in the UK, maybe a couple of people?

 

[AlanW]

Buy the best frame for you from a uk company, their staff will be based in the uk as a minimum. Presumably you'll be putting modern components on it. All of which will likely be made overseas, even the wheels regardless of them being handbuilts in the uk.
You can't buy a bike that is truly British. You'll be supporting global business

I agree, but the lions share and the most important bit of that jigsaw will be made from UK tubing and fabricated in the UK.

 

[srw]

.
You can't buy a bike that is truly British.

*ahem* Brompton *ahem*









(Yes, I know - point made for you.)

 

[vickster]

*ahem* Brompton *ahem*









(Yes, I know - point made for you.)

Do they not use any parts or components made overseas?

 

[srw]

Do they not use any parts or components made overseas?

(Yes, I know - point made for you.)