So who's too blame ?

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BrumJim

Forum Stalwart (won't take the hint and leave...)
Can't disagree with you, and those that know more are coming to the same conclusion.

But Hamilton was level with Max just before the corner, so Max knew he was there.

I'm wrong, aren't I?
 

carpiste

Guru
Location
Manchester
Racing incident ^_^ Credit to Hamilton chasing down LeClerk to pip him to the win. Great drive
 

classic33

Leg End Member
Can't disagree with you, and those that know more are coming to the same conclusion.

But Hamilton was level with Max just before the corner, so Max knew he was there.

I'm wrong, aren't I?
Onboard with Max, you can see he turned the steering wheel left just before impact was made.

51G collision with the tyre wall!
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
I bet Max is wishing he yealded and came second.
Hamilton could easily have come off worse and been out with 0 points.
I don’t think either wanted to crash, unlike Schumacher who took out rivals and was a dirty driver.
 
They were both at fault. Racing incident IMHO.

If it had been a one off tag, then yes, I'd say Hamilton. But Lewis and Max were banging wheels for most of the opening lap until that point. Neither was going to back down, so it was always going to end in tears.

For once, I'd say the stewards probably got it right - i.e. they took into account the whole lap to that point, not just the contact at Copse.

Lewis negating the penalty out on track shows us *why* he's a 7-time world champion.

Max has learnt a harsh lesson that sometimes, it's worth backing down and keeping your powder dry for another day.
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Hamilton got a 10 second penalty for causing a collision that put another car off the track and into a wall at 160mph.
Tsunoda got a 10 second penalty for crossing the white line in the pit lane during a previous race.
 
Hamilton got a 10 second penalty for causing a collision that put another car off the track and into a wall at 160mph.
Tsunoda got a 10 second penalty for crossing the white line in the pit lane during a previous race.

Motor racing safety is my background, more specifically F1 crash testing and composite materials. First off, the tyre wall did its job, as did the crash structures on the side of the car. Both performed as they should have done, and for that, we are all thankful. But what I will say is this:

A decade, two decades ago, neither driver would have tried that at Copse, because they knew that if they got it wrong, they *would* be hurt. When I started watching motor racing, the cars were still made from aluminium honeycomb, and then, that likely would have been a fatal incident, with the chassis ended up being pretzeled around the driver. If anything, too much risk has been removed from the sport - drivers seem to be immune to the fact that sometimes the sport *does* bite back. I think Max learned that today.

Regarding Tsunoda's penalty in Austria - he had done that multiple times during the meeting. The reason that white line is there, is to separate slow cars leaving the pits from those running at full speed on the racing line. If there is no separation, there is the chance of the car leaving the pits being speared in a side impact. If the nose of the car travelling at high speed goes into the side of the cockpit of a slower car, there is a high chance of serious injury or even a fatality.
 

Cerdic

Senior Member
Racing incident in my book.

I'm not keen on the whole 'penalties' thing. No driver in their right mind would want to deliberately touch another car. The risk of damaging their own is too great. So what is being penalised is an error of judgement. (Yes, I know, there is the occasional Prost/Senna incident. But in general...)

Given that overtaking in F1 is ridiculously difficult, highly competitive racing drivers are sometimes going to get it wrong.

People complain that there isn't enough overtaking in F1 and then want drivers punished for making a mistake in the attempt! Well make your mind up, do you want to watch motor RACING, or just some sort of speed trial...?

Good post by Reynard! I suspect that I have been watching motor racing for as long as him! Does your username hint at a connection to the much esteemed manufacturer of racing cars, by any chance?
 

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
I don’t think Christian Horner behaved very well.
He seemed to be going a bit OTT with his hysterics. No one was injured and the outcome of a crash shouldn’t have a bearing on the potential penalty anyway, unless it’s deliberately reckless.
 

derrick

The Glue that binds us together.
I don’t think Christian Horner behaved very well.
He seemed to be going a bit OTT with his hysterics. No one was injured and the outcome of a crash shouldn’t have a bearing on the potential penalty anyway, unless it’s deliberately reckless.
Did make himself look a bit silly.
 
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classic33

Leg End Member
I don’t think Christian Horner behaved very well.
He seemed to be going a bit OTT with his hysterics. No one was injured and the outcome of a crash shouldn’t have a bearing on the potential penalty anyway, unless it’s deliberately reckless.
Toto Wolfe was just as bad, during the race, "asking" why his e-mail hadn't been read. Then taking a copy of it to Massi(Race Director) whilst they were still clearing Verstappen's car.

Verstappen is in hospital as a result of the crash.
 

steven1988

Veteran
Location
Sheffield
I thought it was a racing incident and up until Norris got a penalty a few weeks ago it would have been.

Let them race! I hope the penalty doesn't put Lewis off going for a gap again it could ruin what is turning out to be a quality title fight
 
Good post by Reynard! I suspect that I have been watching motor racing for as long as him! Does your username hint at a connection to the much esteemed manufacturer of racing cars, by any chance?

Her, actually... :girl:

Yes, I was involved in developing full-chassis stress analysis modelling for their ChampCar project back in the late-ish 90s as part of my MEng.

N.B. 1982 British Grand Prix at Brands is where it all started for me, and *THAT* overtake at Paddock :blush:
 
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