FishFright
More wheels than sense
Hamilton understeered because he would never have made that line stick , Verstappen was in the way.
So who's too blame ?
- Thread starter biggs682
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Hamilton understeered because he would never have made that line stick , Verstappen was in the way.
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Who is to blame was answered by the stewards within 30 minutes - Hamilton.
What's debatable is the level of punishment. As was said at the time by Coulthard and Webber, a 10 second drive through seemed appropriate. The 10 second penalty he was given was effectively no punishment as it didn't hinder him in the slightest.
If it was just a "racing incident", the stewards would have said so and no penalty applied.
What's debatable is the level of punishment. As was said at the time by Coulthard and Webber, a 10 second drive through seemed appropriate. The 10 second penalty he was given was effectively no punishment as it didn't hinder him in the slightest.
If it was just a "racing incident", the stewards would have said so and no penalty applied.
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
Yes, but Coulthard and Webber were both part of the Red Bull set-up, and still drive the cars on promotional days. They can hardly be considered impartial.
The stewards, love them or loathe them, have to be impartial.
And, as ever, there are always more versions of the same incident than there are drivers involved. Part of the headache over the current rules is that you can have as many damn diagrams in the sporting regs as you like, it will always be, to some degree, subjective.
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Talking of which, here's Toto's diagram -
Bonefish Blues
Banging donk
- Location
- 52 Festive Road
I think it's a deal more complex than that.
Has Chandhok's walk-through been linked on thread yet? CLC had the best seat in the house and called it a racing incident, as did Alonso.
There was fault on both sides - each could have avoided the incident, but didn't. Max is accustomed to people, Hamilton included, backing out of contact and avoiding an accident. This time it didn't happen, because Max miscalculated and steered towards Hamilton, who had, or was in the process of backing out, having been alongside.
Linky:
https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...skypad-analysis-verstappen-hamilton-collision
Bonefish Blues
Banging donk
- Location
- 52 Festive Road
It's a lot, but eminently survivable if protected. The 'record' g survived in motorsport is 4 times that.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
Max's fault
Look at his steering wheel just before contact - he was steering right for the corner - then realised Lewis was there and straightened - then steered right harder!
In my opinion Max has always driven VERY aggressively and has got away with it
As a result people drive far more defensively when trying to keep Max behind or get in front of him - so Max gets away with it again
Even Lewis has said that he treats Max differently to any other driver
but then, until now, Lewis has always known that in the long run Max will not win - the Merc was always so much faster over the whole season that Lewis would win anyway
But now Lewis has to push because his car is a best equal to the red Bull - possibly maybe even probably - a bit slower. Therefore Lewis has to treatMax as an equal and not back off
During the first lap Lewis gave up on a couple of corners where he could have claimed the line but Max was never going to back off - by Copse he was probably fed up with giving up to Max's aggression and just matched it.
Lewis was possibly a bit off the apex - bu he had the inside line and was level - or damn close to it so Max should have taken the outside line
However, Max did not - he turned in on the assumption that Lewis would back off again
He didn't
Either could have backed off - Lewis already had a couple of times but didn't this time
Max could have - but didn't and may have increased the aggression by turning in
Max's fault - but a racing incident
Look at his steering wheel just before contact - he was steering right for the corner - then realised Lewis was there and straightened - then steered right harder!
In my opinion Max has always driven VERY aggressively and has got away with it
As a result people drive far more defensively when trying to keep Max behind or get in front of him - so Max gets away with it again
Even Lewis has said that he treats Max differently to any other driver
but then, until now, Lewis has always known that in the long run Max will not win - the Merc was always so much faster over the whole season that Lewis would win anyway
But now Lewis has to push because his car is a best equal to the red Bull - possibly maybe even probably - a bit slower. Therefore Lewis has to treatMax as an equal and not back off
During the first lap Lewis gave up on a couple of corners where he could have claimed the line but Max was never going to back off - by Copse he was probably fed up with giving up to Max's aggression and just matched it.
Lewis was possibly a bit off the apex - bu he had the inside line and was level - or damn close to it so Max should have taken the outside line
However, Max did not - he turned in on the assumption that Lewis would back off again
He didn't
Either could have backed off - Lewis already had a couple of times but didn't this time
Max could have - but didn't and may have increased the aggression by turning in
Max's fault - but a racing incident
classic33
Leg End Member
Last two are in wrong order. Running an F1 team first, then married Ginger Spice.
NorthernDave
Never used Über Member
- Location
- The real Northern Powerhouse
Racing incident.
Vestappen has a reputation as an aggressive driver and he knew Lewis was there, in a heavy fully fuelled car that was likely to understeer - he could have easily avoided the incident but chose not to.
It's ironic that F1 were faffing with qualifying at Silverstone in a bid to make the sport more exciting, but the minute something genuinely exciting happens they're dishing unwarranted penalties about.
I've never been a fan of Horner, but he excelled himself yesterday with his level of childish finger pointing and over the top outrage - funnily enough he was silent a couple of weeks ago when Checko took two drivers off in separate but similar incidents in the same race wasn't he?
Vestappen has a reputation as an aggressive driver and he knew Lewis was there, in a heavy fully fuelled car that was likely to understeer - he could have easily avoided the incident but chose not to.
It's ironic that F1 were faffing with qualifying at Silverstone in a bid to make the sport more exciting, but the minute something genuinely exciting happens they're dishing unwarranted penalties about.
I've never been a fan of Horner, but he excelled himself yesterday with his level of childish finger pointing and over the top outrage - funnily enough he was silent a couple of weeks ago when Checko took two drivers off in separate but similar incidents in the same race wasn't he?
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Aye I've seen it said elsewhere that Sky were heavily in favour of Hamilton, maybe in the same way that CH4 favour Red Bull as referenced by @Reynard
At the end of the day, the stewards looked at ALL the data, including from the cars themselves and ruled that Hamilton was at fault.
Bonefish Blues
Banging donk
- Location
- 52 Festive Road
What part of his pretty detailed analysis didn't you agree with?
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Its just his opinion and what he thinks the drivers were thinking. The stewards gave their opinion and theirs is the only one that matters.
Bonefish Blues
Banging donk
- Location
- 52 Festive Road
As I said originally, that's a little simplistic.
The penalty reflects, without question, that there's blame on both sides. Why? Because if someone had driven dangerously such that they endangered the life of another driver (according to CH...), they really wouldn't be getting a 10-sec penalty, and not even a Stop-Go.
This was an accident that was going to happen. MV has been putting other drivers in a 'yield or we crash scenario' for a long time now - but this time it was very badly judged on his part, both in terms of the WDC, and his position on the track, on the outside of the corner.
Compare this move and what CH said about his driver then. Not at all condemnatory when his own driver stuffs a car up the inside - in fact great driving...but only because LH was mature enough to avoid contact by opening up the steering.
Last edited:
mustang1
Legendary Member
- Location
- London, UK
good point
Beebo
Firm and Fruity
- Location
- Hexleybeef
View: https://youtu.be/FRt8hXFb0Vg
This is the opening lap. At 32 seconds Hamilton is well ahead going to a corner but Max forces through on the inside when Hamilton pulls out.
2 corners later the opposite happens but Max only slightly ahead but doesn’t pull out. He can’t have it both ways.
Last edited:
