So who's too blame ?

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Cerdic

Senior Member
Her, actually... :girl:

Yes, I was involved in developing full-chassis stress analysis modelling for their ChampCar project back in the late-ish 90s as part of my MEng.

N.B. 1982 British Grand Prix at Brands is where it all started for me, and *THAT* overtake at Paddock :blush:

Cool! My first GP in the flesh, as it were, was Brands in 1983, I think. Would that have been the European Grand Prix that year rather than the British?
 
Cool! My first GP in the flesh, as it were, was Brands in 1983, I think. Would that have been the European Grand Prix that year rather than the British?

Yes it was. The penultimate race of the season, that year. :okay:
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
Hamilton.

At the point of impact Max was substantially ahead and pulling forward at a decent rate as he had the line, so the rules clearly defer to him in that scenario without any qualification. In that regard its quite clear cut.

It almost looks like Hamilton was deliberately steering into him, but I don't think thats the case. I suspect he was understeering, on the wrong, dirty line, with a late entry and apex so inevitably heading for an early exit, and was working the wheel a little to try and compensate.

One irksome thing is the level of punishment. While I'm sure it was not deliverate, it was nevertheless a serious impact for Verstappen. Aside from losing the championship leader the opportunity to win any points he has written off a rival teams car. I doubt much will be salvageable from that, and at a time of budget caps thats a big issue for teams as it then compromises the budget they have left for in season development, something which Red Bull do a lot of.

That being the case, the penalty should reflect the effect it had on the innocent party. He should have been disqualified, the only punishment that is commensurate with the effects of the crime.

He got off pretty lightly, all things considered.

Yes, I would agree with that, Max has got Hamilton spooked a bit, and Hamilton was trying too hard to get past Max in the first lap as he didn't think he could do it later in the race, he went in too hot and caused the contact.
 
Can't disagree with you, and those that know more are coming to the same conclusion.

But Hamilton was level with Max just before the corner, so Max knew he was there.

I'm wrong, aren't I?
"level" - well very nearly. A few years back there was a drivers/stewards agreement that you needed to be "more than half-way" up the inside of another car. He certainly managed that:
1626690261743.png

(from here:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE05USSQMfk
which may get taken down any minute)
It looked to me like HAM then backed-out when he was Max wasn't, so at impact the 'Bull was well ahead.

So - much as it pains me - racing incident seems fair; but a penalty is understandable, as at such high speeds the consequences could be immense, and many drivers would not have created that risk, preferring caution
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
I don’t think Christian Horner behaved very well.
He seemed to be going a bit OTT with his hysterics. No one was injured and the outcome of a crash shouldn’t have a bearing on the potential penalty anyway, unless it’s deliberately reckless.
Chris Horner?

Blimey he gets about a bit. First he wins the Vuelta. Then he marries Ginger Spice. Now he's running an F1 team. Is there no limit to his talents?
 
Chris Horner?

Blimey he gets about a bit. First he wins the Vuelta. Then he marries Ginger Spice. Now he's running an F1 team. Is there no limit to his talents?
I will resist jokes about the Vuelta winner's age, and Ginger Spice :whistle:
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Hamilton , that line was never on. But he's had near immunity for pushing people of the outside of corners for years, just ask Rosberg.
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
I bet Max is wishing he yealded and came second.
Hamilton could easily have come off worse and been out with 0 points.
I don’t think either wanted to crash, unlike Schumacher who took out rivals and was a dirty driver.

More like Senna and Prost than Schumacher.
 

T4tomo

Legendary Member
100% Max's fault. Lewis did the old jink outside and back inside trick, Max bought it and should have stayed on his outside line - fecking hooligan.

the whole thing is a storm in tea-cup , see Schumacher vs Hill if you want to see reckless driving and deliberately taking out an opponent.
 

FishFright

More wheels than sense
I don’t think Christian Horner behaved very well.
He seemed to be going a bit OTT with his hysterics. No one was injured and the outcome of a crash shouldn’t have a bearing on the potential penalty anyway, unless it’s deliberately reckless.

51 G impact , let that sink in.
 

Jody

Stubborn git
Both of them knew what they were doing. Max was trying to chop him and Lewis was standing his ground. If you look at the replay they were pretty much side by side but Ham lifted slightly before turn in.

They bumped at T3, bumped a couple of times down to T6 and then it all came to a head at T9.

Racing incident.

7136af7559b1cc606f45288bc9c33f78.jpg
 

mustang1

Guru
Location
London, UK
It looks like Verstappen was trying to move into a space that was currently occupied by Hamilton.

I don't think Hamilton should even have got the 10 second penalty
 
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