Speeding...

[Browser]

If tha were speedin', then cough up speedy!

 

[Debian]

The point of speeding penalties is too make drivers stay within the (supposedly safe if usually somewhat arbitrary) limit: not to pay off the national debt.

A more effective way of doing this would be to reduce the fine to an administration charge and increase the number of points incurred.

Sort of +1 but I would also increase the financial penalty.

There's a whole raft of motoring offences for which the penalties should be heavier. IMHO speeding at 10 - 19% over the limit should be 6 points and £250 fine. 20% or more should be an immediate 12 points and £1000 fine. Any subsequent speeding offence should be a further 12 points and permanent confiscation and destruction of the offending vehicle and £5000 fine.

 

[Rebel Ian]

Do you understand physics?

Yes, thanks, quite well! I agree with the overall sentiment of the thread that driving at 39mph in a 30mph limit is indefensible.

 

[John the Monkey]

Who said anything about 39mph? My post said 30mph. Modern cars are designed to be as pedestrain friendly as possible and there are specific tests that measure it. Bikes are not designed with pedestrian safety as far as I'm aware.

If you scroll back a bit, there's a link about impact force, and how it's calculated.

Here it is again;
http://www.science.org.au/nova/058/058key.htm

You're right that some cars are designed to mitigate the damage they do if they hit something. However, I don't believe you can credibly claim that that outweighs the fact that the car's mass is several times larger than that of a pedal bicycle and rider, and that consequently the car transfers far more impact energy to the unfortunate pedestrian than a pedal bicycle.

 

[Rebel Ian]

If you scroll back a bit, there's a link about impact force, and how it's calculated.

Here it is again;
http://www.science.org.au/nova/058/058key.htm

You're right that some cars are designed to mitigate the damage they do if they hit something. However, I don't believe you can credibly claim that that outweighs the fact that the car's mass is several times larger than that of a pedal bicycle and rider, and that consequently the car transfers far more impact energy to the unfortunate pedestrian than a pedal bicycle.

Thanks, John. I completeley accept that. I have been hit by a car, albeit slightly less than 30mph, and I can confirm it bloody hurts! My original point however was about people taking then moral high ground about driving too fast in a car "because it's not safe" when they'd have no issue with doing it on a bike.

As I said, I agree that 39mph is too fast in a 30mph limit irrespective of whether it's in a car, on a bike or on a motorbike.

 

[mangaman]

Thanks, John. I completeley accept that. I have been hit by a car, albeit slightly less than 30mph, and I can confirm it bloody hurts! My original point however was about people taking then moral high ground about driving too fast in a car "because it's not safe" when they'd have no issue with doing it on a bike.

As I said, I agree that 39mph is too fast in a 30mph limit irrespective of whether it's in a car, on a bike or on a motorbike.

In all seriosness to you thin it's likely you would be hit by a bike at 39mph - or even 30.

You must spend a lot of time around professional cyclists.

How many people drive at 39 in a 30 mph limit?

How many people cycle at 39 in a 30mph limit?

I would argue several orders of magnitutde higher in the 1st group - which completely invalidates your argument.

(Unless you have been hiding some cunning stats up your sleeve that a bicycle approaching you is going to more damage than a car)

My experience of 44 years on this Earth is that bikes ridden irresponsibly (and I have been quite vocally anti-pavement cycling on that thread) are still avoidable by some swervage by the cyclist/ped. The deaths from cycle/ped collisions are tiny.

Cars are different - the death toll is a disgrace

 

[Rebel Ian]

In all seriosness to you thin it's likely you would be hit by a bike at 39mph - or even 30.

You must spend a lot of time around professional cyclists.

How many people drive at 39 in a 30 mph limit?

How many people cycle at 39 in a 30mph limit?

I would argue several orders of magnitutde higher in the 1st group - which completely invalidates your argument.

(Unless you have been hiding some cunning stats up your sleeve that a bicycle approaching you is going to more damage than a car)

My experience of 44 years on this Earth is that bikes ridden irresponsibly (and I have been quite vocally anti-pavement cycling on that thread) are still avoidable by some swervage by the cyclist/ped. The deaths from cycle/ped collisions are tiny.

Cars are different - the death toll is a disgrace

Mangaman - I completely agree that the likelihood is low of being hit by a bike at "similar" speeds to a car. It's not beyond any of us however to go comfortably over 30mph, even 40mph down a decent hill. Yes?

Edited to add - drop me a message offline. I don't want to hijack the thread.

 

[dondare]

I tend to speed quite a bit, in fact I do not know anyone who doesn't speed. I reckon there are a fair few people on here taking an extremely judgemental view.

I would love to spend a day driving around with some of you, and maybe punch you in the head everytime you exceed any limit by any amount. You would be black and blue by the end of the day.

So would your hand. Hard things, heads.

Through Cheddar, on the main road, there is a 20mph zone, it's about 600m long, and covers the area broadly around the two schools. I had to be in a meeting, miles away, at 9 in the morning a few weeks ago. So I left home about 4.30am, and I went through that zone faster than 20mph. Does that make me an evil person?

Lets get a bit real and bit less judgemental. CoG had a lapse in judgement, he'll cough up and move on with his life. Bear in mind, the average driver concentrates for about 20 minutes in every driving hour.

Driving past two schools above the arbitrary 20 mph speed limit makes you a thoroughly evil person.

(For some reason I suddenly want to eat cheese.)

 

[johnnyh]

I think the difference between CoG and most posters in this thread is that CoG got caught and the rest haven't.

Can anyone slating him seriously say they have never driven over a speed limit at any time?
I am a pretty tame driver - more now than in the past, I am that annoying git who will drive at 28 mph with a nice queue behind him. Never had a ticket, but I couldnt swear I have never sped and so wont judge others.

 

[Crankarm]

Well the OP was driving at 39 so that is kind of what the thread is about.

Don't worry though - stand still in the middle of my road and I'll stick to 30. You won't enjoy it.

I'm free all weekend - so feel free to PM me and I'll arrange to video it. I'll start on my bike and see how you fare, then drive at you at 30 mph in my car.

I would make sure you have a will that is up to date though.

I'm free this weekend too. I'm good with video camera if you need any help MM? I also have a First Aid certificate so can put him in the recovery position and make sure his airway is clear which might be needed after part 2 of the test. Although it might be better not to move him until paramedics arrive.

 

[Over The Hill]

I think the difference between CoG and most posters in this thread is that CoG got caught and the rest haven't.

Can anyone slating him seriously say they have never driven over a speed limit at any time?
I am a pretty tame driver - more now than in the past, I am that annoying git who will drive at 28 mph with a nice queue behind him. Never had a ticket, but I couldnt swear I have never sped and so wont judge others.

I see drivers in two groups.
Group A, see speed limits as nothing but a nanny state imposition stopping them exercising their right to override any rules and drive at whatever speed they choose. These people think the road is their private race track and speed whenever they think they can get away with it and mostly do but sometimes get caught.
Group B, recognise that cars kill hundreds of people and are happy to aim to stick to the speed limit. However they are human and the speed limit system is often difficult to go with and so either by human error or by temptation in some circumstances or simply by bad signs in a place that they do not know, they may speed now and again. And yes they can also get caught.

So both groups speed, both groups mainly get away with it and both groups get caught. But they are a world apart in attitude and how they drive most of the time.

 

[Crankarm]

I think the difference between CoG and most posters in this thread is that CoG got caught and the rest haven't.

Can anyone slating him seriously say they have never driven over a speed limit at any time?
I am a pretty tame driver - more now than in the past, I am that annoying git who will drive at 28 mph with a nice queue behind him. Never had a ticket, but I couldnt swear I have never sped and so wont judge others.

User1314 has deep pockets he can afford the fine. The clue is in his name. I reckon he speeds everywhere when he gets caught and fined he just melts down another gold bar .

 

[mangaman]

I'm free this weekend too. I'm good with video camera if you need any help MM? I also have a First Aid certificate so can put him in the recovery position and make sure his airway is clear which might be needed after part 2 of the test. Although it might be better not to move him until paramedics arrive.

Well we're all sorted then Cranky

Unfortunately I'm too polite to run someone over for forum-specific points.

Rebel Ian seems to have mellowed a bit anyway, so I don't want to kill him any more

 

[Crankarm]

Well we're all sorted then Cranky

Unfortunately I'm too polite to run someone over for forum-specific points.

Rebel Ian seems to have mellowed a bit anyway, so I don't want to kill him any more

Perhaps it was too good to be true, a willing guinea pig . Yes you and others have made him see sense. The test would be rather - terminal.

 

[slowmotion]

Lets get a bit real and bit less judgemental. CoG had a lapse in judgement, he'll cough up and move on with his life. Bear in mind, the average driver concentrates for about 20 minutes in every driving hour.

I'm not sure where that last piece of data came from, but I would broadly agree with that post. My suspicion is that the majority of KSIs are caused by stupid inattentive driving, rather than speed, or indeed, alcohol. I have absolutely no data with which to back up that assertion, BTW. You can legislate against speeding and drunk driving, but not against stupid driving, very easily.