Taking off the door mirror...

[fossyant]

Have you ever had a car or van "just touch you?!?"

Lots of times, I've yet to deliberately remove a mirror though. I have removed two accidentally, one was a left hooking van, and I went through his wing mirror with my right shoulder, followed by a superman impression. The other was my big off in 2008, when a car didn't stop at a roundabout, and my left shoulder smashed the mirror before I was on the ground.

I was clipped last week by a speeding car, still didn't go after him. If I had done, I'd have had no escape route should I have been stupid enough to remove the mirror.

Oh and had a woman drive at me this morning, even revving her car. Appart from screaming that the lights had changed and what the flip was she doing, I didn't feel the need to kick the car or owt !

 

[Andrew_P]

Lots of times, I've yet to deliberately remove a mirror though. I have removed two accidentally, one was a left hooking van, and I went through his wing mirror with my right shoulder, followed by a superman impression. The other was my big off in 2008, when a car didn't stop at a roundabout, and my left shoulder smashed the mirror before I was on the ground.

I was clipped last week by a speeding car, still didn't go after him. If I had done, I'd have had no escape route should I have been stupid enough to remove the mirror.

Oh and had a woman drive at me this morning, even revving her car. Appart from screaming that the lights had changed and what the flip was she doing, I didn't feel the need to kick the car or owt !

I have never damaged a car or van either, but there is no way if anyone just "touched me in their car or van" would I let it be, there is no way in any circumstance that it can be deemed an accident. It has to be deliberate or negligence. When I have confronted close passes they are always belligerent which always suggests to me they knew full well what they were doing and they made the conscious decision to put me at risk to save them some time because I was slowing their progress, how in anyway any other person, let alone a cyclist can deem that reasonable behaviour is beyond me.

Also I do not pick and choose the targets of my wrath I have confronted vans with 2 or more people in them or cars pumping out loud music filled with teenagers, tipper lorries etc and in my experience is they are mostly cowards which goes along way to explaining their actions behind the wheel of a deadly weapon. You just have to listen to these radio phone in shows to hear how a lot of drivers feel about cyclists to know that least some if not all instances of bad driving is a punishment.

 

[fossyant]

Ah Andrew_P, you haven't felt the need to drop to the level of thug and smash bits off cars either. Yes I'll have a word with drivers, but it's no more than a load of swearing before I carry on. You can't argue with an idiot, I've tried it. You criticise a driver, they go into defensive/aggressive mode. Never works. A quick 'Oi' with some added vocabulary usually get's heads turning, before I carry on.

Close passes don't bother me that much, not unlike others. I've come from a racing and club background and have been quite used to riding at high speed right up someones wheel. Close to me is when I can touch the car, and it's usually an 'Oi' and me jesticulating about giving room. I can't be ar$ed with stopping and trying to converse with a driver, it never works. Nor do I feel the need to stoop to their level and smash bits off a car. You become a thug then !

 

[martint235]

It depends. In my new, calmer life, if there's a hint of an apology I'll tend to let it go. If not I have been known to chase cars for quite a while (even to the extent of straining my achilles tendon by launching into a full on sprint after a car in Tottenham whilst nearing the end of 100 miler). I'm trying to be calm, I really am but there are some pillocks out there that need a good talking to.

 

[Jody]

but there is no way if anyone just "touched me in their car or van" would I let it be, there is no way in any circumstance that it can be deemed an accident. It has to be deliberate or negligence. .

You can have an accident and be negligent. Negligence only means the act falls below the level required by law. For it to be deliberate the driver would have to make the conscious decision to hit you or get as close as possible. I don't believe for one minute there are that many people on the road who try to, on purpose, hit a cyclist.

 

[400bhp]

Ah Andrew_P, you haven't felt the need to drop to the level of thug and smash bits off cars either. Yes I'll have a word with drivers, but it's no more than a load of swearing before I carry on. You can't argue with an idiot, I've tried it. You criticise a driver, they go into defensive/aggressive mode. Never works. A quick 'Oi' with some added vocabulary usually get's heads turning, before I carry on.

Close passes don't bother me that much, not unlike others. I've come from a racing and club background and have been quite used to riding at high speed right up someones wheel. Close to me is when I can touch the car, and it's usually an 'Oi' and me jesticulating about giving room. I can't be ar$ed with stopping and trying to converse with a driver, it never works. Nor do I feel the need to stoop to their level and smash bits off a car. You become a thug then !

You're generally right, arguing gets you nowhere and @Andrew_P is spot on, if they are belligerent it's because they understood what they were doing.

However, take a different approach, don't criticise, just try and put them in your shoes. It does work (albeit not always). I try and use the "bit close back there mate, just wanna get home to my wife and kids, stiff drink needed when i get home". Don't ask a question and don't necessarilly wait for a reply. Short and punchy. Most peeps don't want confrontation and the ones that do then nothing will help.

Red mist still descends now and then, but it does no-one any good.

And, actually, I have been extremely contrite when a car driver (quite rightly) had a pop at me when I rlj'd. I was wrong, he was right. We shook hands. So, some people will apologise and understand where they were wrong.

 

[Dan B]

You can have an accident and be negligent. Negligence only means the act falls below the level required by law.

What is this "only"? In law you have a duty of care. A duty, to be careful. And if, in law, you are negligent, that means that you do not care. To me this is not acceptable. Do you really think it's OK that there are people out there in cars who don't care whether they hurt or kill people? That's what negligence is, there's no "only" about it

 

[Jody]

Of course I dont think it is acceptable that there are people who don't care if they hurt and kill when using a vehicle. Very few people would. In the same way I don't this it is OK to murder or cause criminal damage or take the law into their own hands.

Negligence doesnt mean you dont care. It means that you are negligent.

 

[theclaud]

Of course I dont think it is acceptable that there are people who don't care if they hurt and kill when using a vehicle. Very few people would. In the same way I don't this it is OK to murder or cause criminal damage or take the law into their own hands.

Negligence doesnt mean you dont care. It means that you are negligent.

Negligence is precisely the failure to exercise care. The act of not caring. Sorry to pretty much repeat Dan, but it seems to be necessary.

 

[Andrew_P]

What is this "only"? In law you have a duty of care. A duty, to be careful. And if, in law, you are negligent, that means that you do not care. To me this is not acceptable. Do you really think it's OK that there are people out there in cars who don't care whether they hurt or kill people? That's what negligence is, there's no "only" about it

Put better than I was going to @Jody Don't get me wrong I am not ranting and raving every day of my cycling life, in fact I have a very high threshold for the red mist, and when the red mist descends I have to act fast or it has gone. The vast majority of motorists do show due care and attention for my well being the ones that don't if I have the opportunity I will point it out and this can vary from an f'ing and blinding rant to wtf I can't believe you just did that. The last time someone stopped after I had shouted oi, they asked what my problem was, when I said you were so close I could see what radio station you were tuned into I got the reply "well there were cars coming the other way" they didn't have an answer when I said "so you would rather possibly hit me than wait or hit the other cars?" and then sped off gesturing out the window.

Now I am not a small built bloke and I suspect when I got up to the window I didn't fit what seems to be the how a cyclist should be, people seem to think that a cyclist = timid geeky type and I think some of that is problem easy target for a bully in a car that is in a hurry.

 

[ianrauk]

Now I am not a small built bloke and I suspect when I got up to the window I didn't fit what seems to be the how a cyclist should be, people seem to think that a cyclist = timid geeky type and I think some of that is problem easy target for a bully in a car that is in a hurry.

This... in a nutshell.

 

[Jody]

Ok, sorry if my understanding of negligent is off. I read failing to take proper care to mean just that and not that the person doesn't care.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Now I am not a small built bloke and I suspect when I got up to the window I didn't fit what seems to be the how a cyclist should be, people seem to think that a cyclist = timid geeky type and I think some of that is problem easy target for a bully in a car that is in a hurry.

This. The expectation is that cyclists are skinny, bit weedy even, conflict averse, poor people. Some are. Some aren't. I'm aren't.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

What causes a caring person not to take proper care?

The illusion of attention. See "The Invisible Gorilla" for a scientific investigation and description.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Again, which one is it?

Selective quotation Jody, losing the context of each remark.

But to answer your question, it isn't a case of either/or but a case of and/both.

Your world may be binary. Mine isn't.