Taking the flexitarian road?

[mudsticks]

Do you think your views are in accord with those of the major shareholders?

Sssshhh.

But this is a major part of the issue.

Extractivism.

Nothing wrong with paying fairly for food produced well.

In fact I rather approve the concept.



It's making food, its production , processing and distribution, far more about profiteering than about feeding people well.

It's not even about food security.

Rather surprisingly 'food security' is not seen as a 'public good' like education , and healthcare, are in this country

Food is left almost entirely up to 'the market'



In many ways the 'extractivism' model runs directly counter to producing food, in a way that sustains human and ecosystem health long term.

I'm not blaming FF by the way.
It's a place we have ended up , via collective consent, or neglect.

We're all caught up in it , to a certain extent.

Changing it to something better is going to take concentration and sustained effort.

But we do need to recognise the problem.

We are gradually waking up to it

 

[newfhouse]

It's a place we have ended up , via collective consent, or neglect.

We're all caught up in it , to a certain extent.

Changing it to something better is going to take concentration and sustained effort.

But we do need to recognise the problem.

We are gradually waking up to it

I hope your comments only apply to food and have no wider political resonance. This is Café after all

 

[Fab Foodie]

Thats a good question and worth pondering.

If you are still eating meat though much smaller portions, then enjoy the real meat burgers, sausages etc. Why go for substitutes.

You already helping the environment by reducing your meat intake.

I supposed plant based substitutes are more for vegan and vegetarians who have no options when it comes texture especially. This cohort is expect to rise to 25% of UK pop. Hence the growth of this industry.

It’s a small step from a meat burger/sausage/pie to a good plant based alternative version. Furthermore preparation and accompaniments are the same too. It’s a no brainer.
Eating less meat is also good (bit not as good as meat-free) so save that for the best bits/treats.

 

[mudsticks]

I hope your comments only apply to food and have no wider political resonance. This is Café after all

Of course not dear.

This is café..
It can only be food.

And I am but an 'umble farmarista.

I know nothing of the big bad world outside of the edible.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Do you think your views are in accord with those of the major shareholders?

I’m certain their concerns are primarily whether their money is wisely invested and their bank balances are growing. I doubt many of them are too angst-ridden about the small details.
My views may differ notably from theirs….

 

[KnittyNorah]

If a plant-based nugget/burger/sausage was as good to eat in taste and texture as a meat one, why would you not choose the plant based one assuming the same price?

I'd definitely choose the animal-based one if it came from locally-reared outdoor pigs/hens/cows/whatevers, over a plant-based one originating from soya fields carved out of virgin Amazon rainforest ...

In fact, a large part of my shopping involves - and always has involved, it was how I was brought up - checking the origin of 'whatever' ingredients to the best of my ability. As a child in the 1950s we rarely had oranges as they usually came from South Africa or Spain ... I remember at primary school I couldn't spell 'apartheid' but I knew what it was, and Franco was considered by my dad to be a flourishing remnant of Fascism ...

 

[mudsticks]

I'd definitely choose the animal-based one if it came from locally-reared outdoor pigs/hens/cows/whatevers, over a plant-based one originating from soya fields carved out of virgin Amazon rainforest ...

In fact, a large part of my shopping involves - and always has involved, it was how I was brought up - checking the origin of 'whatever' ingredients to the best of my ability. As a child in the 1950s we rarely had oranges as they usually came from South Africa or Spain ... I remember at primary school I couldn't spell 'apartheid' but I knew what it was, and Franco was considered by my dad to be a flourishing remnant of Fascism ...

I generally approve the message Norah

Boycotting the apartheid oranges went on well into the eighties even.

But the soya grown on deforested land is more likely to find its way into factory farmed animals, than into us.

If we buy EU or organically produced pulses and grains there's a good chance their provenance will be reasonably acceptable in terms of production methods.

But there's definitely a case to be argued against us eating very much from other countries soils.

Certainly not, if we can produce alternatives here.

There's a small but growing number of farms producing UK grown legumes.

Hodmedods springs to mind as one of the better known ones.

But definitely in this country (UK) we can grow superb pasture.

In fact you've got a job to keep on top of it

So we can produce very good meat and milk.
And should appreciate it more.

Pay a bit more even??

Eat less of it , but eat better

Plus our green acreages, our landscape, and its associated biodiversity have evolved with thousands of years of pastoral farming.

Mixing up the grazers, with the plant crops

It can be really productive if we do it well

Reducing our food to industrially produced, reformed plant sludge (sorry fabbers) seems a bit ungrateful, if not to say lacking in imagination, with so much potential bounty right on our doorsteps.

 

[Arrowfoot]

I'd definitely choose the animal-based one if it came from locally-reared outdoor pigs/hens/cows/whatevers, over a plant-based one originating from soya fields carved out of virgin Amazon rainforest ...

To your point.

Future Burger (plant based) found in UK supermarkets comes from the Brazil and from one of the big cattle ranch outfit. It would be an irony that people took to plant based to save the environment only to find that the rainforest are continued to be razed and this time not for cattle but for soya beans. By the way, Brazil is the largest producer of Soya beans in the World followed by the US.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I generally approve the message Norah

Boycotting the apartheid oranges went on well into the eighties even.

But the soya grown on deforested land is more likely to find its way into factory farmed animals, than into us.

If we buy EU or organically produced pulses and grains there's a good chance their provenance will be reasonably acceptable in terms of production methods.

But there's definitely a case to be argued against us eating very much from other countries soils.

Certainly not, if we can produce alternatives here.

The apartheid oranges 'boycott' certainly went on for a long long time - the Fascist oranges ended in the 1970s though and became acceptable, not too long after the Chilean apples etc had to go off the shopping list in 1973 ...

I always look at country of origin; even though that can sometimes/often be ... misleading ... especially on 'prepared' foods, it's not usually too difficult to excavate the truth.

My dad also used to insist on Windward Island bananas, rather than 'plantation' bananas from Costa Rica etc, on the grounds of supporting smaller farmers and independent producers. He'd have been intrigued by the attitude to bananas of some of my colleagues the former East Germany when I went to work there in the 1990s.

 

[mudsticks]

The apartheid oranges 'boycott' certainly went on for a long long time - the Fascist oranges ended in the 1970s though and became acceptable, not too long after the Chilean apples etc had to go off the shopping list in 1973 ...

I always look at country of origin; even though that can sometimes/often be ... misleading ... especially on 'prepared' foods, it's not usually too difficult to excavate the truth.

My dad also used to insist on Windward Island bananas, rather than 'plantation' bananas from Costa Rica etc, on the grounds of supporting smaller farmers and independent producers. He'd have been intrigued by the attitude to bananas of some of my colleagues the former East Germany when I went to work there in the 1990s.

Go on then.

East Germans and their interesting banana attitudes...

 

[Arrowfoot]

The apartheid oranges 'boycott' certainly went on for a long long time - the Fascist oranges ended in the 1970s though and became acceptable, not too long after the Chilean apples etc had to go off the shopping list in 1973 ...

I always look at country of origin; even though that can sometimes/often be ... misleading ... especially on 'prepared' foods, it's not usually too difficult to excavate the truth.

My dad also used to insist on Windward Island bananas, rather than 'plantation' bananas from Costa Rica etc, on the grounds of supporting smaller farmers and independent producers. He'd have been intrigued by the attitude to bananas of some of my colleagues the former East Germany when I went to work there in the 1990s.

Thanks for the history lesson. It's fascinating.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I'd definitely choose the animal-based one if it came from locally-reared outdoor pigs/hens/cows/whatevers, over a plant-based one originating from soya fields carved out of virgin Amazon rainforest ...

In fact, a large part of my shopping involves - and always has involved, it was how I was brought up - checking the origin of 'whatever' ingredients to the best of my ability. As a child in the 1950s we rarely had oranges as they usually came from South Africa or Spain ... I remember at primary school I couldn't spell 'apartheid' but I knew what it was, and Franco was considered by my dad to be a flourishing remnant of Fascism ...

You raise a good point.

However, getting people to eat soya direct in the form of meat alternatives requires about a 10th of the land required to feed it to cattle and then to humans. So that’s certainly a plus c/w meat.
Also there are alternatives to Brazilian Soya;
Wheat protein, Quorn and Pea protein is UK and EU sourced and the same rule of 10 applies, regarding the land area etc. required to feed humans.
Whilst we may be viewed as the spawn of satan, Big Food has done a whole lot to help move people away from everyday meat consumption.
Big food is also very energy efficient and probably produces kg’s of protein with a lower carbon footprint/energy use than small and local. It’s not perfect, but it’s not all bad either….

 

[KnittyNorah]

Go on then.

East Germans and their interesting banana attitudes...

Well it depended on their former 'leanings' if we can call them that ...
Let me tell you about Marion. She was probably the colleague I was most friendly with. She never told me anything directly but there'd be little things I'd pick up on when she was conversing with other colleagues that told me she was from a family that hadn't exactly had it easy during the 'former times'. (I never let on just how good my understanding of German was; I let everyone think that my accent was appalling because of my poor standard of German not because I'd become fluent while living and working in the Tirol and the Sud-Tirol decades earlier ... a bit as if a German had learnt all their English from people speaking broad Geordie or Glaswegian really!)
Anyway, one day I was walking from work to the tram stop and Marion was walking with me. When we got to the tram stop there was some delay or another, due to an accident on the line, so I suggested we go and get a coffee and a cake. It was a nice sunny day and we could sit outside to keep an eye on the trams. I forget what we got, some delicious kaese-sahne-kuchen no doubt.
A child walked by, eating a banana and Marion suddenly said - out of the blue, it seemed at the time, that she always got horrible cold goosebumps up and down her back whenever she saw someone eating a banana on the street. Even seeing someone buying a banana from a street fruit stall made her stomach churn.
Huh? I said, or words to that effect.
And Marion explained that all during her childhood and teenage years, right into her adulthood, someone having a banana was a blatant, boastful sign that they were either high in the Stasi, had family who were, or had been given a 'reward' by the Stasi for really useful information ...
She was not the only person around to have this visceral reaction to various (odd and unexpected to those of us who had never lived under the privations of the East German regime) things; the 'ghosts' of the past were all too recent - and thus strongly felt - in the early - mid 1990s.
Bananas had been a rare luxury available only to the 'top' people and basically a label of the evil power of the Stasi. I imagine the few bananas available pre fall of the Wall would come from Cuba, perhaps. Or maybe Angola or somewhere like that. Certainly precious things and not for the likes of 'ordinary' people.
,

 

[mudsticks]

Well it depended on their former 'leanings' if we can call them that ...
Let me tell you about Marion. She was probably the colleague I was most friendly with. She never told me anything directly but there'd be little things I'd pick up on when she was conversing with other colleagues that told me she was from a family that hadn't exactly had it easy during the 'former times'. (I never let on just how good my understanding of German was; I let everyone think that my accent was appalling because of my poor standard of German not because I'd become fluent while living and working in the Tirol and the Sud-Tirol decades earlier ... a bit as if a German had learnt all their English from people speaking broad Geordie or Glaswegian really!)
Anyway, one day I was walking from work to the tram stop and Marion was walking with me. When we got to the tram stop there was some delay or another, due to an accident on the line, so I suggested we go and get a coffee and a cake. It was a nice sunny day and we could sit outside to keep an eye on the trams. I forget what we got, some delicious kaese-sahne-kuchen no doubt.
A child walked by, eating a banana and Marion suddenly said - out of the blue, it seemed at the time, that she always got horrible cold goosebumps up and down her back whenever she saw someone eating a banana on the street. Even seeing someone buying a banana from a street fruit stall made her stomach churn.
Huh? I said, or words to that effect.
And Marion explained that all during her childhood and teenage years, right into her adulthood, someone having a banana was a blatant, boastful sign that they were either high in the Stasi, had family who were, or had been given a 'reward' by the Stasi for really useful information ...
She was not the only person around to have this visceral reaction to various (odd and unexpected to those of us who had never lived under the privations of the East German regime) things; the 'ghosts' of the past were all too recent - and thus strongly felt - in the early - mid 1990s.
Bananas had been a rare luxury available only to the 'top' people and basically a label of the evil power of the Stasi. I imagine the few bananas available pre fall of the Wall would come from Cuba, perhaps. Or maybe Angola or somewhere like that. Certainly precious things and not for the likes of 'ordinary' people.
,

Fascinating.

So much symbolism in a piece of fruit.

Bananas may be become a luxury food for us before long.

Most productive banana plants are clones of one plant.

Diseases are starting to spread all too easily in these monoculture plantations...

https://theconversation.com/the-quest-to-save-the-banana-from-extinction-112256

Again it's one of the perils of a lack of diversity

 

[KnittyNorah]

Fascinating.

So much symbolism in a piece of fruit.

Bananas may be become a luxury food for us before long.

Most productive banana plants are clones of one plant.

Diseases are starting to spread all too easily in these monoculture plantations...

https://theconversation.com/the-quest-to-save-the-banana-from-extinction-112256

Again it's one of the perils of a lack of diversity

That's been known for years. I was in New Zealand when there were almost no bananas available; some disease had hit the Aussie banana plantations, and the only banana boat still on the high seas (in that half of the world) was bobbing about somewhere in the Pacific awaiting an engineer with a spare part for one of the engines. My friend Barbara had a house in the Hokianga with banana trees in the large garden, and she had to pay for guards to stop the (very small) crop of bananas being stolen as she had promised them to ... someone? some children's charity? ... can't remember for their fund-raiser and they did indeed raise a large amount!
When I lived in the Middle East, we used to get pink, large-finger-sized bananas, seasonally from Oman - THE most delicious, sweet things you have ever tasted. Bog standard Cavendish were a huge disappointment after those!