Taking the flexitarian road?

[classic33]

Plant based.... sounds just as bad as meat based - like Maccy's chicken nuggets - might have been a chicken.

I eat veg, not processed veg and also keep processed meat to a minimum. Veggie sausages, sorry, but probably far worse for you than real sausages (not el cheapo ones)

If it's edible I'll eat it, although I draw the line at lots of fishy stuff - if it's a fish fine, but not something with legs etc.

Where do you stand on fish fingers then?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Did not realise the word existed but I realised I am becoming one. More plant based than meat. Still love my steaks and fry-ups. Not into raging ethics or philosophy but for health and environmental reasons. Discovering lentils some time back helped with the re-direct.

The price of plant based processed food however is cause for concern. Sainsbury recorded a 65% increase in plant based food in 2019. So there is demand. Who can afford these prices? Just to be clear this is not your fresh veggies but processed food that is popularly called "plant based".

Anyone else heading down this road?

Yes.

 

[Fab Foodie]

A quick word from ‘big food’….
‘Plant based’ is about trying to move people towards a diet that is overwhelmingly vegetable based. For health and particularly for the environment. Sounds obvious eh?
Well yes, but the difficulty is in the how. Whilst increasing numbers are happy to bin meat and go full lentil, the majority still see meat as an essential, the steak, the burger, the sausage, the spag-bol, chicken-tikka, and the Nugget they see as their inalienable food choices without which life is not worth living.

Big food can and is developing Soy, Wheat, Pea and lab-grown meat alternatives which can help tempt people from meat to something more sustainable, healthy and environmentally beneficial without losing much of the experience of meat eating.
In a very short time we have come a very long way from Soya mince, via Quorn to some really good meat alternatives that are available today.
Are they perfect? Not quite, but some are getting very close. Yes they’re expensive but prices will fall as volumes increase. Market growth is double digit, there is clearly a desire to move easily to a diet that is more plant but without going full hippy.

If a plant-based nugget/burger/sausage was as good to eat in taste and texture as a meat one, why would you not choose the plant based one assuming the same price?

 

[Arrowfoot]

I thought 'plant based' was used by people as an alternative to vegan, for those who adopt that way of eating not particularly to avoid killing animals but because it's better for the planet or healthier. Or perhaps it's Whole Food Plant Based that I'm thinking of.

Anyway, for anyone that wants to increase the amount of non-meat containing meals they eat I would highly recommend checking out Pick Up Limes or Avantgardevegan.

The words, terms and phrases have been interchangeably used. In a way the industry has no agreed glossary. Old World non-meat will start using "plant based" because it is in vogue and its all about marketing.

This is what I would personally classify.

1. Old world Veg processed food - mock burgers, bacon sausages but no attempt to replicate meat taste or texture. Quorn from Fungus is an example. The range is wide.
2. New world Veg processed food - they are actually aiming to replicate meat in all respect with plant based material conceived in a lab. The term plant based are first used by this lot about 5 to 8 years ago as they were working it.

There is another new journey on saving the environment but it is actually meat. It's called cultured meat grown ion bioreactors from cellular animal material. Singapore Food Agency approved in 2020 the first cultured chicken nugget for a Californian start-up called "East Just" It is cultured meat. It was served in a Restaurant in Dec 2020. But it is not commercially viable yet as the cost is high and the company has not revealed figures.

Wholefoods is focused on all food (veg and non-veg) that do not contain unnecessary or artificial additives , preservatives, colours etc. And very big on organics.

 

[newfhouse]

A quick word from ‘big food’….
‘Plant based’ is about trying to move people towards a diet that is overwhelmingly vegetable based. For health and particularly for the environment.

Forgive my cynical question, Fabbers. How much is driven by a desire to “do the right thing” and how much by seeing an opportunity to continue with the same business model of buying industrially and harmfully grown ingredients then adding greenwashing and packaging?

It feels a bit like the petrochemical companies seeing the demise of oil and pushing hydrogen as a replacement - slightly less damaging at first sight but still the same heavily marketed extractive business model at heart, still the unnecessary movement of tonne tin boxes at high speed, mostly carrying one passenger a couple of miles.

 

[mudsticks]

Forgive my cynical question, Fabbers. How much is driven by a desire to “do the right thing” and how much by seeing an opportunity to continue with the same business model of buying industrially and harmfully grown ingredients then adding greenwashing and packaging?

It feels a bit like the petrochemical companies seeing the demise of oil and pushing hydrogen as a replacement - slightly less damaging at first sight but still the same heavily marketed extractive business model at heart, still the unnecessary movement of tonne tin boxes at high speed, mostly carrying one passenger a couple of miles.

Even well intentioned it still relies on long supply chains, and industrialised agriculture.

And a lot of oil diesel for tractors, oil based fertilisers and pesticides that are required in arable only monocropping.
It's against nature.


It's not actually sustainable to have no animals in our agricultural systems

Yes, they need to be outside in their natural environment, eating natural foods and building soil.

Of course if some people don't want to eat meat or milk that's a personal choice, there will still be plenty of other things for them to eat.

Fwiw a lot of the 'vegans' who have worked or stayed here have ended up eating the eggs produced here because they see what a good life they have.

Personally I don't see industrialised plant based as 'the answer'

its another bit of marketing that extracts value, and nutrition even between the farm and the fork.


It's definitely a step up from 'industrialised' animal raising, in terms of welfare and pollution , but it doesn't give us the long term answer to better food and farming.

Integrated agroecology, with animals, biodiversity enhancing mixed farming systems, as is still practised by many farmers globally does that in my view.

 

[All uphill]

Forgive my cynical question, Fabbers. How much is driven by a desire to “do the right thing” and how much by seeing an opportunity to continue with the same business model of buying industrially and harmfully grown ingredients then adding greenwashing and packaging?

It feels a bit like the petrochemical companies seeing the demise of oil and pushing hydrogen as a replacement - slightly less damaging at first sight but still the same heavily marketed extractive business model at heart, still the unnecessary movement of tonne tin boxes at high speed, mostly carrying one passenger a couple of miles.

I'm sure there is something in what you say; big industries look for an industrial solution to the market's desire to be a bit healthier and greener.

There's also something else going on. A part of the market wants things to be different, but nothing to change. In other words I want to eat healthier and still have my burger.

Similar to I want an electric car that does everything exactly the same as my petrol car.

Those things can be done, at a price. Easier to get the full benefit by embracing the change fully.

 

[mudsticks]

I'm sure there is something in what you say; big industries look for an industrial solution to the market's desire to be a bit healthier and greener.

There's also something else going on. A part of the market wants things to be different, but nothing to change. In other words I want to eat healthier and still have my burger.

Similar to I want an electric car that does everything exactly the same as my petrol car.

Those things can be done, at a price. Easier to get the full benefit by embracing the change fully.

Aduki bean burgers are very quick to make.

After cooking them to a mush, just add in lots of chopped onions garlic, and cumin and some gram flour to stick it all together .

Fry in oil .

Yummy

No it's not quite like meat.
But they are still very tasty, just in a different way

 

[All uphill]

Aduki bean burgers are very quick to make.

After cooking them to a mush, just add in lots of chopped onions garlic, and cumin and some gram flour to stick it all together .

Fry in oil .

Yummy

No it's not quite like meat.
But they are still very tasty, just in a different way

Mmmmmm

 

[Mo1959]

Where do you stand on fish fingers then?

Oooo.....fish finger sarnie. Yum

 

[mudsticks]

Oooo.....fish finger sarnie. Yum

When you want a fish finger sarnie, nothing else quite hits the mark.

With ketchup of course.


I still remember turning up very hungry in a pub in Northumberland after a very long walk.

I could have kissed* the barman when I saw 'fish finger sarnie' on the menu.

* I didn't of course, because they would have been highly disrespectful.

 

[Arrowfoot]

If a plant-based nugget/burger/sausage was as good to eat in taste and texture as a meat one, why would you not choose the plant based one assuming the same price?

Thats a good question and worth pondering.

If you are still eating meat though much smaller portions, then enjoy the real meat burgers, sausages etc. Why go for substitutes.

You already helping the environment by reducing your meat intake.

I supposed plant based substitutes are more for vegan and vegetarians who have no options when it comes texture especially. This cohort is expect to rise to 25% of UK pop. Hence the growth of this industry.

 

[Poacher]

Where do you stand on fish fingers then?

I don't, because
a) it squashes the fish fingers and ruins the texture, and
2) the resulting mush is a b*gger to get from between the toes, and
iii) my toe cheese, added to the fish fingers, tastes and smells disgusting.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Forgive my cynical question, Fabbers. How much is driven by a desire to “do the right thing” and how much by seeing an opportunity to continue with the same business model of buying industrially and harmfully grown ingredients then adding greenwashing and packaging?

It feels a bit like the petrochemical companies seeing the demise of oil and pushing hydrogen as a replacement - slightly less damaging at first sight but still the same heavily marketed extractive business model at heart, still the unnecessary movement of tonne tin boxes at high speed, mostly carrying one passenger a couple of miles.

Both, am certain!

 

[newfhouse]

Both, am certain!

Do you think your views are in accord with those of the major shareholders?