tax insurance & cycling

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Johnno260

Veteran
Location
East Sussex
I have seen many people arguing lately and had some hate directed towards myself for cycling.

A recent office argument got quite heated with people saying if you want to ride go cycle round the park the roads are for cars etc etc, many had seen this petition doing the rounds saying that cyclists should pay road tax and insurance,

I shut the tax issue down fast, even the resident know it all had no answer, all I said is low emission/electric cars use the road some pay little to no tax, why should I pay tax as a cyclist when these road users don't.
 

ianrauk

Tattooed Beat Messiah
Location
Rides Ti2
Print this off and shove it under their noses. That's if they can actually read.

The West Midlands Police Traffic Unit advises -
"DRIVERS DO NOT LET YOUR PREJUDICE GET IN THE WAY OF THE TRUE FACTS"
Owen McDermott's statement is full of inaccuracies and falsehoods but it does represent the received wisdom of a large section of the public. All national cycling organisations and pressure groups should hasten to rebuff this dangerous propaganda. It should be kept simple but here are the true facts in detail:

1) "The public roads built for motor vehicles are becoming unsafe to use due to one particular community that feel they are eligible to drive on public UK roads"
TRUTH -
The public roads were built for cyclists!
They were the result of campaigning by the cycling organisations for metalled surfaces long before the existence of the motor car.
In law cycles are classified as vehicles and have every right to use the public highway.
Cyclists are the vulnerable users of the road not cars.

2). "Not only that these cyclists posses no insurance for their chosen 2 wheeled non mechanical death trap, neither do they pay road tax"
TRUTH -
Although there is no compulsion to be
insured the vast majority of cyclists are, either through their membership of a cycling organisation or through separate cover.
The road tax was abolished in 1937 and replaced by Vehicle Excise Duty. This is a tax on cars, not roads, and it goes straight into the general Treasury fund. The upkeep of the roads is paid from rates and general taxation. (Cycles don't wear out roads). It is unlawful for a Driver to be uninsured although it is estimated that 37,000 cars on the road are uninsured.

3) "Just like having to sit your theory and your practical test to obtain a driving license, Cyclists should havemf to do the same. What training have they had to use the road?".
TRUTH -
80% of cyclists hold a driving licence!!!
Drivers have to be tested because they are in charge of a potentially lethal weapon. West Midland Police say that 98% of cyclists killed or seriously injured on the involved at least one other vehicle. In 84% these cases most common vehicle to be involved was a car.

4). "Im not sure on the percentage of how many cyclists die every year due to cycling on the road but if you stick them back on the paths in a cycle lane I'm sure a lot more people will survive".
TRUTH -
In 2015, 100 cyclists were killed on the roads and 3,239 seriously injured. Which is why we are campaigning for safe segregated cycling infrastructure. Cycle paths are few and far between and were do exist they are badly designed and poorly maintained.
CONCLUSION
The whole assumption in McDermott's Statement is that Cyclists are responsible for the Collisions on the road. Maybe we get in his way so get run over! My retort to that is " Do you want all the road or just the bit I'm cycling on "
 

Sixmile

Veteran
Location
N Ireland
A recent office argument got quite heated with people saying if you want to ride go cycle round the park the roads are for cars etc etc, many had seen this petition doing the rounds saying that cyclists should pay road tax and insurance

Ah the old office debate. I've found generally that these type of things never end well. A bit of banter yes, but I wouldn't be getting all heated up and angry about it.

On the insurance side, people are shocked when I say I've 3rd party insurance and that most riders that they would complain about (ie those in group rides) would be insured. Once you answer a point like that, then they'll move to 'road tax'. Once you answer that the way you have, they'll move to 'well, you should have number plates...' etc and on it goes.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Why waste precious time justifying yourself to oxygen thieves like them?
IMO it's worth trying to bring facts to these discussions (thank you @ianrauk and WM Police TU). And, in the interest of balance, the cyclist is probably using more oxygen than an office pedestrian (breathing) through the effort being put in (but this is not theft), though far less than the oxygen consumed by the motor vehicle that many will have used to get to work (using more than their 'fair' share?).
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
The petition is gathering some fun comments though. Somebody has made the point that they want it to succeed so that the issues raised can be debated in parliament and put to bed once and for all.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
IMO it's worth trying to bring facts to these discussions (thank you @ianrauk and WM Police TU). And, in the interest of balance, the cyclist is probably using more oxygen than an office pedestrian (breathing) through the effort being put in (but this is not theft), though far less than the oxygen consumed by the motor vehicle that many will have used to get to work (using more than their 'fair' share?).

Certainly positive statements, articles or education from the likes of WM etc is good, but on a more personal level I don't feel the need to justify myself to idiots.

Nothing will change, I will still ride my bike, they'll still be idiots, so why bother?
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
To add to the earlier advice, I suggest you point these people to http://cyclingfallacies.com/en/ and get on with enjoying your day while they frown at their pc screens.
 
I have seen many people arguing lately and had some hate directed towards myself for cycling.

A recent office argument got quite heated with people saying if you want to ride go cycle round the park the roads are for cars etc etc, many had seen this petition doing the rounds saying that cyclists should pay road tax and insurance,

I shut the tax issue down fast, even the resident know it all had no answer, all I said is low emission/electric cars use the road some pay little to no tax, why should I pay tax as a cyclist when these road users don't.


Last time this happened the guy was driving an exempt car!

Pointing out that according to his own standards he shoul not be on the road did not go down well

As for insurance, most are covered under the personal liability on the household insurance, or hold insurance through membership of an organisation
 
Certainly positive statements, articles or education from the likes of WM etc is good, but on a more personal level I don't feel the need to justify myself to idiots.

Nothing will change, I will still ride my bike, they'll still be idiots, so why bother?
Because showing them up as idiots is good fun

We had one st work who used to rant about the fact that paying "Road Tax" gave him more right than cyclists.... and they should get out of their way because of this contribution to the cost of maintaining the highway

Then I pointed out that I have a large people carrier to take the wheelchair, hoist etc

Because of this I paid MORE road tax than him, and by his argument that gave me more rights than him and he should be getting out of MY way

Apparently not....
 

Shortandcrisp

Über Member
Just say that, as a cyclist, you're fed up with having to subsidise their use of the roads and it's about time they actually paid road tax themselves.
 
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