Team BKool CycleChat

[Breedon]

There were some very noticeable differences between the Pro and the Kickr for me.

First very obvious difference is the blast from the line. On the Pro there is almost no resistance in the trainer and you can blast away and get a jump start. On the Kickr the resistance is high from the off so the speed increases gradually. Today, even though I pushed up to 750 watts off the line and held it for a bit I couldn't get anywhere near the wheels of anyone else. Gonna just have to live with this (in Zwift you can do flying starts so the difference will be neutralised)

On the slight lumps, the speed on the Kickr dropped way down when on the Pro the momentum going into the lumps was keeping the speed fairly constant so long as you keep the power on. Not sure if you noticed but every time we hit a 1-2% lump you easily pulled away from me, even though I was pushing the watts up to 350+. I was then having to work hard to get back to you.

As soon as you soft pedal on the Kickr the watts drop. Not surprising I guess as it has the power meter. On the pro, as watts are linked to speed, and the speed has the advantage of momentum, watts even out more and drop less dramatically.

Speed on the Pro is smoothed out. Drops in speed are gradual. On the Kickr the speed was going up and down like a cheap girl's knickers after 6 bottles of 'K'

Kickr is quieter than the Pro (not surprising). It also feels smoother to pedal which I wasn't expecting but is nice.

Standing up and pedaling on the Kickr felt more like real life and more natural. I really liked that - I could stand up and sprint, not something I found very easy on the Pro.

I was surprised by my 30 minute watts of 256. I don't generally ride two consecutive days, so given I did give it all on the race yesterday I'm really surprised that I held that power today on the Kickr. Not sure if that flatter style course flattered me or not. Be interesting when I do a more lumpy course.

Upshot is I'll be further down the field but working damn hard to get back up there again. I'm still safely in Team Beige but with an eye on those fast guys up the road I've got within a whisker of them before, I can do it again

Very similar to the Neo in every thing you said even the starts are painfully slow my bug bare , would be interesting to see how we both compare in bkool i think we would be evenly matched on flat and lumpy courses, might be better at hilly stuff but not sure.
you'll like the lack of wheel slip when putting down the power and standing when sprint is great.

 

[Breedon]

Post Of The Day!

Yes did make me laugh out loud

 

[Whorty]

Very similar to the Neo in every thing you said even the starts are painfully slow my bug bare , would be interesting to see how we both compare in bkool i think we would be evenly matched on flat and lumpy courses, might be better at hilly stuff but not sure.
you'll like the lack of wheel slip when putting down the power and standing when sprint is great.

You'll blow me away on anything slightly hilly. Next step has to be to lose some kg and get below 75kg. If I can keep most of my power when losing the I should be more competitive. If only I could stay away from the cake counter

 

[bridgy]

Guys I am hearing on the grapevine that instead of the velodrome on stage 3 of the Nations Cup there will be a team time trial with a staggered start (Hammer Series style). Sounds fun!

 

[Del C]

Well...

Good luck with the rest of the qualifiers boys.... it’s a f#cking joke because I’m training hard and coming into form. But f#ck that and f#ck bkool in general. I don’t put 4 or 5 minutes into Bridgy on my best day ever... so I’m out. It goes without saying that I’ll still be there to cheer you boys on. Sorry for all the swearing but I’m a little pissed off.

Wondered for some time whether to reply to this, but as I'd like you to ride for the NC team, then I thought I'd share my view. Of course, I'm fairly new here and you don't really know me, so if you disagree with me at the end of this, please feel free to tell me to f**k off! Personally, I'm struggling with Bkool data as much as you seem to be, but from a totally different perspective at the other end of the scale. I'll come back to this later.

On one hand I agree with what you're saying and respect it but on the other hand I think you're over-reacting, have no need to feel pissed off and won't have any unfair advantage on your other NC riders when the day of the competition comes round.

So, I accept that any fair competitor is going to be as pissed off about unreliable data that overrates their performance as data that underplays how well they are doing. But in the case of the NC, where its likely that all competitors are going to be riding Bkool turbos, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Why? Well its clear that Bkool overrates watts at the top end, but its likely to be doing this for all riders at the standard required to qualify for the NC (and that certainly doesn't include me). I think @CXRAndy said a few days back that Bkool doesn't seem at all linear in the way that it measures power. In the last few days, I've watched:

1. The lead riders starting the Thursday change gang at 1000W
2. You going up a steady 6% gradient today at a steady 600W - that's impressive
3. I did a 1km warm up in the velodrome today. When I looked on Strava, the top riders are apparently lapping the velodrome at 95mph!! Frankly, that's f***ing unbelievable!!

From everything I've read on this forum, it seems as if you have sufficient power to push near enough to or beyond the max resistance of the Bkool turbo, then somewhere between the BSim software and algorithms and the Bkool turbo firmware, you'll end up with a sprinkling of Bkool fairy dust and a power output and speed which isn't really believable.

So, if you're riding on say Zwift with a Bkool turbo, or Bkool with a Wahoo Kickr, then these things probably do matter and make a level playing field difficult. So, on this hand I understand your annoyance. And if you're riding a Kickr or similar, with a far greater resistance, replicating far stiffer gradients, then this is probably annoying.

But on NC day? By all means get your Bkool recalibrated, but as others have said, I can't imagine other NC competitors will be worrying too much about this, and I doubt you'll be at any advantage or disadvantage. It should be a level playing field and it should be, as others have said, a fun day. I'll certainly try to watch as much as I can on the day.

I said I'd give my own perspective, partly to offer a different view, but if I'm honest partly to let out my own different frustrations with Bkool right now, which are actually caused by the same issues that are annoying you, but affecting me quite differently.

I bought a Bkool trainer last winter and rode it for the winter months, but solo, with no competitive rides. I came back to it at the end of summer, rode the Summer Cup and enjoyed it, so joined the Cycle Chat league. And I've been struggling!

For context, I'm 62, but I ride at least 4 times a week, around 8k miles a year and throughout the summer I'm riding at least 2 x 70 mile rides a week, with guys who still race at Vet level and I'm averaging around 17.5 mph for most of those rides. I've also played sport, with a few short breaks, since I was at school, so I'm quite fit.

But on Bkool, I'm way behind the best riders. I think its clear the best Cycle Chat riders are clearly fitter than me, but using today as an example, on a 20 mile time trial I came in over 16 minutes behind the first guy home. I felt a bit heavy today, but when I looked at my time on Strava, I'd averaged 22.5mph. If I adjusted that to 10km TT, I'd have come in at about 26.40 on a flattish course, which is actually credible for me, and a bit better than my PB on our club 10 course, which is a bit lumpier than today's course. Against the best TT riders in my club, I'd expect to be around 4-5 minutes slower on a 10, and about 8-10 slower on a 20.

The times of the guys at the front today are averaging around 32mph, which seems to be heading towards the sort of times a pro would find acceptable. I checked Rohan Dennis's best average time for a pro of just over 35mph on a 14 mile route, so 32mph is going some!

The effect this has on me is a little dispiriting and tends to make me want to give up. Regardless of age, I'm still fit and the competitive side of me gets pissed off with the way I'm trailing in so far at the back. I don't expect to be competing at the front, but I'd like to be more competitive than I seem to be.

But, if I look at my times on the tables of Vet 3 riders, I'm actually near the top, and even on the general tables, I'm doing pretty well. So, I know I'm riding against some good riders, and that's good, and it gives me something to aim at. Although I think I'm currently suffering from a lack of Bkool fairy dust, and get a bit down when others seem to be getting a liberal dose of the stuff, I still think I can improve, and that as I do so, there's every possibility that my times can improve and the gap will close.

So, in summary, I think we've both been afflicted by Bkool's wacky power measurements and speed calculations. Despite that, for me if I can keep improving my own performance level, Bkool is doing its job and I'll keep trying to push up the leagues.

You're at the other end of the scale from me, and struggling with stuff that I can only dream of right now! But I think for NC you're on a fairly level playing field, so I hope you'll stay with it and strengthen the UK NC team.

Or, as I said at the start............ you can tell me to f**k off and mind my own business........... or sympathise with my struggles if you want to!

 

[bobinski]

Wondered for some time whether to reply to this, but as I'd like you to ride for the NC team, then I thought I'd share my view. Of course, I'm fairly new here and you don't really know me, so if you disagree with me at the end of this, please feel free to tell me to f**k off! Personally, I'm struggling with Bkool data as much as you seem to be, but from a totally different perspective at the other end of the scale. I'll come back to this later.

On one hand I agree with what you're saying and respect it but on the other hand I think you're over-reacting, have no need to feel pissed off and won't have any unfair advantage on your other NC riders when the day of the competition comes round.

So, I accept that any fair competitor is going to be as pissed off about unreliable data that overrates their performance as data that underplays how well they are doing. But in the case of the NC, where its likely that all competitors are going to be riding Bkool turbos, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Why? Well its clear that Bkool overrates watts at the top end, but its likely to be doing this for all riders at the standard required to qualify for the NC (and that certainly doesn't include me). I think @CXRAndy said a few days back that Bkool doesn't seem at all linear in the way that it measures power. In the last few days, I've watched:

1. The lead riders starting the Thursday change gang at 1000W
2. You going up a steady 6% gradient today at a steady 600W - that's impressive
3. I did a 1km warm up in the velodrome today. When I looked on Strava, the top riders are apparently lapping the velodrome at 95mph!! Frankly, that's f***ing unbelievable!!

From everything I've read on this forum, it seems as if you have sufficient power to push near enough to or beyond the max resistance of the Bkool turbo, then somewhere between the BSim software and algorithms and the Bkool turbo firmware, you'll end up with a sprinkling of Bkool fairy dust and a power output and speed which isn't really believable.

So, if you're riding on say Zwift with a Bkool turbo, or Bkool with a Wahoo Kickr, then these things probably do matter and make a level playing field difficult. So, on this hand I understand your annoyance. And if you're riding a Kickr or similar, with a far greater resistance, replicating far stiffer gradients, then this is probably annoying.

But on NC day? By all means get your Bkool recalibrated, but as others have said, I can't imagine other NC competitors will be worrying too much about this, and I doubt you'll be at any advantage or disadvantage. It should be a level playing field and it should be, as others have said, a fun day. I'll certainly try to watch as much as I can on the day.

I said I'd give my own perspective, partly to offer a different view, but if I'm honest partly to let out my own different frustrations with Bkool right now, which are actually caused by the same issues that are annoying you, but affecting me quite differently.

I bought a Bkool trainer last winter and rode it for the winter months, but solo, with no competitive rides. I came back to it at the end of summer, rode the Summer Cup and enjoyed it, so joined the Cycle Chat league. And I've been struggling!

For context, I'm 62, but I ride at least 4 times a week, around 8k miles a year and throughout the summer I'm riding at least 2 x 70 mile rides a week, with guys who still race at Vet level and I'm averaging around 17.5 mph for most of those rides. I've also played sport, with a few short breaks, since I was at school, so I'm quite fit.

But on Bkool, I'm way behind the best riders. I think its clear the best Cycle Chat riders are clearly fitter than me, but using today as an example, on a 20 mile time trial I came in over 16 minutes behind the first guy home. I felt a bit heavy today, but when I looked at my time on Strava, I'd averaged 22.5mph. If I adjusted that to 10km TT, I'd have come in at about 26.40 on a flattish course, which is actually credible for me, and a bit better than my PB on our club 10 course, which is a bit lumpier than today's course. Against the best TT riders in my club, I'd expect to be around 4-5 minutes slower on a 10, and about 8-10 slower on a 20.

The times of the guys at the front today are averaging around 32mph, which seems to be heading towards the sort of times a pro would find acceptable. I checked Rohan Dennis's best average time for a pro of just over 35mph on a 14 mile route, so 32mph is going some!

The effect this has on me is a little dispiriting and tends to make me want to give up. Regardless of age, I'm still fit and the competitive side of me gets pissed off with the way I'm trailing in so far at the back. I don't expect to be competing at the front, but I'd like to be more competitive than I seem to be.

But, if I look at my times on the tables of Vet 3 riders, I'm actually near the top, and even on the general tables, I'm doing pretty well. So, I know I'm riding against some good riders, and that's good, and it gives me something to aim at. Although I think I'm currently suffering from a lack of Bkool fairy dust, and get a bit down when others seem to be getting a liberal dose of the stuff, I still think I can improve, and that as I do so, there's every possibility that my times can improve and the gap will close.

So, in summary, I think we've both been afflicted by Bkool's wacky power measurements and speed calculations. Despite that, for me if I can keep improving my own performance level, Bkool is doing its job and I'll keep trying to push up the leagues.

You're at the other end of the scale from me, and struggling with stuff that I can only dream of right now! But I think for NC you're on a fairly level playing field, so I hope you'll stay with it and strengthen the UK NC team.

Or, as I said at the start............ you can tell me to f**k off and mind my own business........... or sympathise with my struggles if you want to!

Top post!
Who knows how individual Pro’s behave normally or how they will behave on the day? Does it really matter given only pros’s will be used in the competition? You could insist on all being recalibrated before the day but that I think runs counter to the informal spirit of the competition. So, as a splitter,I reckon those fast enough to compete should do so unworried by the vagaries of bsim and individual trainer performance and just enjoy!

 

[bobinski]

There were some very noticeable differences between the Pro and the Kickr for me.

First very obvious difference is the blast from the line. On the Pro there is almost no resistance in the trainer and you can blast away and get a jump start. On the Kickr the resistance is high from the off so the speed increases gradually. Today, even though I pushed up to 750 watts off the line and held it for a bit I couldn't get anywhere near the wheels of anyone else. Gonna just have to live with this (in Zwift you can do flying starts so the difference will be neutralised)

On the slight lumps, the speed on the Kickr dropped way down when on the Pro the momentum going into the lumps was keeping the speed fairly constant so long as you keep the power on. Not sure if you noticed but every time we hit a 1-2% lump you easily pulled away from me, even though I was pushing the watts up to 350+. I was then having to work hard to get back to you.

As soon as you soft pedal on the Kickr the watts drop. Not surprising I guess as it has the power meter. On the pro, as watts are linked to speed, and the speed has the advantage of momentum, watts even out more and drop less dramatically.

Speed on the Pro is smoothed out. Drops in speed are gradual. On the Kickr the speed was going up and down like a cheap girl's knickers after 6 bottles of 'K'

Kickr is quieter than the Pro (not surprising). It also feels smoother to pedal which I wasn't expecting but is nice.

Standing up and pedaling on the Kickr felt more like real life and more natural. I really liked that - I could stand up and sprint, not something I found very easy on the Pro.

I was surprised by my 30 minute watts of 256. I don't generally ride two consecutive days, so given I did give it all on the race yesterday I'm really surprised that I held that power today on the Kickr. Not sure if that flatter style course flattered me or not. Be interesting when I do a more lumpy course.

Upshot is I'll be further down the field but working damn hard to get back up there again. I'm still safely in Team Beige but with an eye on those fast guys up the road I've got within a whisker of them before, I can do it again

Carl,
You will have earnt every on of those watts and so, overtraining aside, will improve quicker.
I look forward to reading your experience with the kickr on Zwift.

 

[keithaitch]

Wondered for some time whether to reply to this, but as I'd like you to ride for the NC team, then I thought I'd share my view. Of course, I'm fairly new here and you don't really know me, so if you disagree with me at the end of this, please feel free to tell me to f**k off! Personally, I'm struggling with Bkool data as much as you seem to be, but from a totally different perspective at the other end of the scale. I'll come back to this later.

On one hand I agree with what you're saying and respect it but on the other hand I think you're over-reacting, have no need to feel pissed off and won't have any unfair advantage on your other NC riders when the day of the competition comes round.

So, I accept that any fair competitor is going to be as pissed off about unreliable data that overrates their performance as data that underplays how well they are doing. But in the case of the NC, where its likely that all competitors are going to be riding Bkool turbos, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Why? Well its clear that Bkool overrates watts at the top end, but its likely to be doing this for all riders at the standard required to qualify for the NC (and that certainly doesn't include me). I think @CXRAndy said a few days back that Bkool doesn't seem at all linear in the way that it measures power. In the last few days, I've watched:

1. The lead riders starting the Thursday change gang at 1000W
2. You going up a steady 6% gradient today at a steady 600W - that's impressive
3. I did a 1km warm up in the velodrome today. When I looked on Strava, the top riders are apparently lapping the velodrome at 95mph!! Frankly, that's f***ing unbelievable!!

From everything I've read on this forum, it seems as if you have sufficient power to push near enough to or beyond the max resistance of the Bkool turbo, then somewhere between the BSim software and algorithms and the Bkool turbo firmware, you'll end up with a sprinkling of Bkool fairy dust and a power output and speed which isn't really believable.

So, if you're riding on say Zwift with a Bkool turbo, or Bkool with a Wahoo Kickr, then these things probably do matter and make a level playing field difficult. So, on this hand I understand your annoyance. And if you're riding a Kickr or similar, with a far greater resistance, replicating far stiffer gradients, then this is probably annoying.

But on NC day? By all means get your Bkool recalibrated, but as others have said, I can't imagine other NC competitors will be worrying too much about this, and I doubt you'll be at any advantage or disadvantage. It should be a level playing field and it should be, as others have said, a fun day. I'll certainly try to watch as much as I can on the day.

I said I'd give my own perspective, partly to offer a different view, but if I'm honest partly to let out my own different frustrations with Bkool right now, which are actually caused by the same issues that are annoying you, but affecting me quite differently.

I bought a Bkool trainer last winter and rode it for the winter months, but solo, with no competitive rides. I came back to it at the end of summer, rode the Summer Cup and enjoyed it, so joined the Cycle Chat league. And I've been struggling!

For context, I'm 62, but I ride at least 4 times a week, around 8k miles a year and throughout the summer I'm riding at least 2 x 70 mile rides a week, with guys who still race at Vet level and I'm averaging around 17.5 mph for most of those rides. I've also played sport, with a few short breaks, since I was at school, so I'm quite fit.

But on Bkool, I'm way behind the best riders. I think its clear the best Cycle Chat riders are clearly fitter than me, but using today as an example, on a 20 mile time trial I came in over 16 minutes behind the first guy home. I felt a bit heavy today, but when I looked at my time on Strava, I'd averaged 22.5mph. If I adjusted that to 10km TT, I'd have come in at about 26.40 on a flattish course, which is actually credible for me, and a bit better than my PB on our club 10 course, which is a bit lumpier than today's course. Against the best TT riders in my club, I'd expect to be around 4-5 minutes slower on a 10, and about 8-10 slower on a 20.

The times of the guys at the front today are averaging around 32mph, which seems to be heading towards the sort of times a pro would find acceptable. I checked Rohan Dennis's best average time for a pro of just over 35mph on a 14 mile route, so 32mph is going some!

The effect this has on me is a little dispiriting and tends to make me want to give up. Regardless of age, I'm still fit and the competitive side of me gets pissed off with the way I'm trailing in so far at the back. I don't expect to be competing at the front, but I'd like to be more competitive than I seem to be.

But, if I look at my times on the tables of Vet 3 riders, I'm actually near the top, and even on the general tables, I'm doing pretty well. So, I know I'm riding against some good riders, and that's good, and it gives me something to aim at. Although I think I'm currently suffering from a lack of Bkool fairy dust, and get a bit down when others seem to be getting a liberal dose of the stuff, I still think I can improve, and that as I do so, there's every possibility that my times can improve and the gap will close.

So, in summary, I think we've both been afflicted by Bkool's wacky power measurements and speed calculations. Despite that, for me if I can keep improving my own performance level, Bkool is doing its job and I'll keep trying to push up the leagues.

You're at the other end of the scale from me, and struggling with stuff that I can only dream of right now! But I think for NC you're on a fairly level playing field, so I hope you'll stay with it and strengthen the UK NC team.

Or, as I said at the start............ you can tell me to f**k off and mind my own business........... or sympathise with my struggles if you want to!

What a great post, Thx @Del C

 

[<Tommy>]

.

 

[CXRAndy]

.

Tommy, I was looking at Pauls time against your ride. I actually watched Paul live. He was having a poor day with his average way down whilst climbing the long hill, around 300w(bkool) . You climbed at your lets say normal- ish pace 350W. That is why you were so far ahead. You weigh roughly the same. Have you compared your time to AAAC? He was several minutes ahead of Paul that day aswell

 

[CXRAndy]

Is this upto date ?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7_XvhHQRD4FC064vEjKty8/htmlview#gid=547112816

I need to do stage 2 next week

 

[keithaitch]

Is this upto date ?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7_XvhHQRD4FC064vEjKty8/htmlview#gid=547112816

I need to do stage 2 next week

I think it's up to date, but if everybody could check their times it would help! If your time is coloured it's because you haven't done that stage yet, or perhaps more accurately your time for the stage hasn't been recorded.

 

[Whorty]

Is this upto date ?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7_XvhHQRD4FC064vEjKty8/htmlview#gid=547112816

I need to do stage 2 next week

I think yes except Tommy's most recent ride.

 

[<Tommy>]

Wondered for some time whether to reply to this, but as I'd like you to ride for the NC team, then I thought I'd share my view. Of course, I'm fairly new here and you don't really know me, so if you disagree with me at the end of this, please feel free to tell me to f**k off! Personally, I'm struggling with Bkool data as much as you seem to be, but from a totally different perspective at the other end of the scale. I'll come back to this later.

On one hand I agree with what you're saying and respect it but on the other hand I think you're over-reacting, have no need to feel pissed off and won't have any unfair advantage on your other NC riders when the day of the competition comes round.

So, I accept that any fair competitor is going to be as pissed off about unreliable data that overrates their performance as data that underplays how well they are doing. But in the case of the NC, where its likely that all competitors are going to be riding Bkool turbos, that shouldn't really be an issue.

Why? Well its clear that Bkool overrates watts at the top end, but its likely to be doing this for all riders at the standard required to qualify for the NC (and that certainly doesn't include me). I think @CXRAndy said a few days back that Bkool doesn't seem at all linear in the way that it measures power. In the last few days, I've watched:

1. The lead riders starting the Thursday change gang at 1000W
2. You going up a steady 6% gradient today at a steady 600W - that's impressive
3. I did a 1km warm up in the velodrome today. When I looked on Strava, the top riders are apparently lapping the velodrome at 95mph!! Frankly, that's f***ing unbelievable!!

From everything I've read on this forum, it seems as if you have sufficient power to push near enough to or beyond the max resistance of the Bkool turbo, then somewhere between the BSim software and algorithms and the Bkool turbo firmware, you'll end up with a sprinkling of Bkool fairy dust and a power output and speed which isn't really believable.

So, if you're riding on say Zwift with a Bkool turbo, or Bkool with a Wahoo Kickr, then these things probably do matter and make a level playing field difficult. So, on this hand I understand your annoyance. And if you're riding a Kickr or similar, with a far greater resistance, replicating far stiffer gradients, then this is probably annoying.

But on NC day? By all means get your Bkool recalibrated, but as others have said, I can't imagine other NC competitors will be worrying too much about this, and I doubt you'll be at any advantage or disadvantage. It should be a level playing field and it should be, as others have said, a fun day. I'll certainly try to watch as much as I can on the day.

I said I'd give my own perspective, partly to offer a different view, but if I'm honest partly to let out my own different frustrations with Bkool right now, which are actually caused by the same issues that are annoying you, but affecting me quite differently.

I bought a Bkool trainer last winter and rode it for the winter months, but solo, with no competitive rides. I came back to it at the end of summer, rode the Summer Cup and enjoyed it, so joined the Cycle Chat league. And I've been struggling!

For context, I'm 62, but I ride at least 4 times a week, around 8k miles a year and throughout the summer I'm riding at least 2 x 70 mile rides a week, with guys who still race at Vet level and I'm averaging around 17.5 mph for most of those rides. I've also played sport, with a few short breaks, since I was at school, so I'm quite fit.

But on Bkool, I'm way behind the best riders. I think its clear the best Cycle Chat riders are clearly fitter than me, but using today as an example, on a 20 mile time trial I came in over 16 minutes behind the first guy home. I felt a bit heavy today, but when I looked at my time on Strava, I'd averaged 22.5mph. If I adjusted that to 10km TT, I'd have come in at about 26.40 on a flattish course, which is actually credible for me, and a bit better than my PB on our club 10 course, which is a bit lumpier than today's course. Against the best TT riders in my club, I'd expect to be around 4-5 minutes slower on a 10, and about 8-10 slower on a 20.

The times of the guys at the front today are averaging around 32mph, which seems to be heading towards the sort of times a pro would find acceptable. I checked Rohan Dennis's best average time for a pro of just over 35mph on a 14 mile route, so 32mph is going some!

The effect this has on me is a little dispiriting and tends to make me want to give up. Regardless of age, I'm still fit and the competitive side of me gets pissed off with the way I'm trailing in so far at the back. I don't expect to be competing at the front, but I'd like to be more competitive than I seem to be.

But, if I look at my times on the tables of Vet 3 riders, I'm actually near the top, and even on the general tables, I'm doing pretty well. So, I know I'm riding against some good riders, and that's good, and it gives me something to aim at. Although I think I'm currently suffering from a lack of Bkool fairy dust, and get a bit down when others seem to be getting a liberal dose of the stuff, I still think I can improve, and that as I do so, there's every possibility that my times can improve and the gap will close.

So, in summary, I think we've both been afflicted by Bkool's wacky power measurements and speed calculations. Despite that, for me if I can keep improving my own performance level, Bkool is doing its job and I'll keep trying to push up the leagues.

You're at the other end of the scale from me, and struggling with stuff that I can only dream of right now! But I think for NC you're on a fairly level playing field, so I hope you'll stay with it and strengthen the UK NC team.

Or, as I said at the start............ you can tell me to f**k off and mind my own business........... or sympathise with my struggles if you want to!

Hi Del. Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful post mate! I’ll try and do it justice with one of my own...

Regarding your issues with BKOOL not being a fair representation of your abilities that wouldn’t surprise me at all to be honest mate. I think there are peoole in the league who are stronger in BKOOL than they are in the real world. And people who are stronger in the real world than BKOOL. There are definitley little tricks I can give you to try and improve you speed (including fedex’ing my turbo to you! ). My first tip would be making sure you bike is ready for the turbo. You might not believe just how much difference having a good tyre on you rear wheel makes. And also having it at a good PSI. But it can make a difference of 50+ watts minimum in some cases. My favourite tyre is a conitinental gp4000. Is expensive but it grips the turbo better than any other tyre I’ve used. Others might have tyres they prefer more. It’s personal preference to some degree. But there are defo tyre that are much worse than others. Once you’ve got the tyre sorted we can look at your general set up. Do you use a powerful fan? And are you drinking enough water? These two factors also play a big role in performance. I’m not trying to tell you how to suck eggs but these things are easily overlooked and underrated sometimes.
Now you’ve got the bike sorted we can look at the sim. Firstly BKOOL and zwift are a complete joke really. I say this because of the way we start races in both cases. Have you ever seen a bike race where everyone is trying to hit such big watts right out of the gate?! I never have at any rate.... it’s mental! And takes a while to get used to, maybe you never will Del. But if you want to compete this is a hurdle everyone needs to try and get over. Basically for me this involved being realistic. On BKOOL there isn’t that many starters in any given race. So before the race, I’d target the people I thought I had a realistic chance of competing with. Out of the gate you have to go hard, but you also have to be honest with yourself and try and conserve some energy where you can. There’s no point in leading aaac and co for the first 200 meters, just to die a painful death and struggle for the next 20 miles. My own philosophy is to always want something for the last mile or two of the race. Don’t get me wrong, I want the tank to be completely empty by the finish line. But I don’t want to struggle over the line. I want to be able to smash through it (it doesn’t always happen like that...)
So...In one of your real world rides you probably start of relatively calmly. Then build pace and momentum as the ride goes on depending on how you’re feeling. On BKOOL you have to start hard. Your heart rate is going to max out if your not careful. Maybe even if you are careful. But if you’ve targeted the correct people they should be suffering at a similar rate as you. So hopefully you can slow your pace enough a mile or so after the start to try and calm your HR and reduce the power a bit. If you find yourself alone on the road. You can slow down to try and find a group/rider to sit with. Or if you’re behind your target group, then you might just have to settle on the race being an individual time trial. It doesn’t matter at all being last honestly. So long as you get something from it. Maybe the guys ahead are having a good day by their standards. Maybe your having a bad one. So all you can really do is find improvement. If it’s a course you’ve done before you can try and beat your previous time. If you haven’t just look to set a target time. And practice how you want to construct a race. It’s a good way of learning how to manage your energy over the said distance and terrain. And the time you set will then be your target next time.
Sometimes in BKOOL it can feel like walking though treacle. But then you might make a massive step forwards. It is really weird the way it works sometimes like that. But stick with it mate.
The best races are definitley the handicap races. Because you often get involved in little mini races and it really improves your ‘race craft’. It can be painful when people go bombing past. I have lots of memories of people going past me like I was standing still. I later discovered watching the replays that people put down massive watts on purpose when they’re passing you so you can’t latch on. But to you it seems like that’s there normal speed and it can be a gut punch if you let it!
I hope that helps. Don’t hesitate to ask a question no matter how basic it sounds. I do the whole time!

With my own issue is much more straight forward!

In that last stage I did, apart from the usual contenders of old, @peterob and @JJRobinson amongst others put in cracking times. And I’m really happy that more and more people seem to be joining the league now. Could I beat those times? Maybe, maybe not... I’m not sure it’s worth debating. But I am sure they both buried themselves to get those times. So now I’m supposed to take their place in the team with the bs time I put up? No thanks, not me. We all know BKOOL is a little inconsistent. But when I beat Bridgy by 6 minutes it’s too much for me... let Pep be Pep. I’m sure some people want to ‘win’ at any cost. But I’m not having people talk about me like that further down the line. It’s not that important to me. I’d rather be able to look people in the eye.

I’m going to try to put up some legitimate results if my turbo lets me. If not then I’ll have a great time cheering on the team.

Guys let’s just make sure whoever gets into the team gets there on merit. There’s so much competition for places it’s brilliant! I know you’re all being good friends and I’m really grateful for that honestly. It’s really a great thing to be part of. But enough now I think. Let’s just focus on the legitimate results

We might not win the nations cup. You never know, maybe we will. Be we definitely gonna have the most fun!!!

 

[Add]

Hi Del. Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful post mate! I’ll try and do it justice with one of my own...

Regarding your issues with BKOOL not being a fair representation of your abilities that wouldn’t surprise me at all to be honest mate. I think there are peoole in the league who are stronger in BKOOL than they are in the real world. And people who are stronger in the real world than BKOOL. There are definitley little tricks I can give you to try and improve you speed (including fedex’ing my turbo to you! ). My first tip would be making sure you bike is ready for the turbo. You might not believe just how much difference having a good tyre on you rear wheel makes. And also having it at a good PSI. But it can make a difference of 50+ watts minimum in some cases. My favourite tyre is a conitinental gp4000. Is expensive but it grips the turbo better than any other tyre I’ve used. Others might have tyres they prefer more. It’s personal preference to some degree. But there are defo tyre that are much worse than others. Once you’ve got the tyre sorted we can look at your general set up. Do you use a powerful fan? And are you drinking enough water? These two factors also play a big role in performance. I’m not trying to tell you how to suck eggs but these things are easily overlooked and underrated sometimes.
Now you’ve got the bike sorted we can look at the sim. Firstly BKOOL and zwift are a complete joke really. I say this because of the way we start races in both cases. Have you ever seen a bike race where everyone is trying to hit such big watts right out of the gate?! I never have at any rate.... it’s mental! And takes a while to get used to, maybe you never will Del. But if you want to compete this is a hurdle everyone needs to try and get over. Basically for me this involved being realistic. On BKOOL there isn’t that many starters in any given race. So before the race, I’d target the people I thought I had a realistic chance of competing with. Out of the gate you have to go hard, but you also have to be honest with yourself and try and conserve some energy where you can. There’s no point in leading aaac and co for the first 200 meters, just to die a painful death and struggle for the next 20 miles. My own philosophy is to always want something for the last mile or two of the race. Don’t get me wrong, I want the tank to be completely empty by the finish line. But I don’t want to struggle over the line. I want to be able to smash through it (it doesn’t always happen like that...)
So...In one of your real world rides you probably start of relatively calmly. Then build pace and momentum as the ride goes on depending on how you’re feeling. On BKOOL you have to start hard. Your heart rate is going to max out if your not careful. Maybe even if you are careful. But if you’ve targeted the correct people they should be suffering at a similar rate as you. So hopefully you can slow your pace enough a mile or so after the start to try and calm your HR and reduce the power a bit. If you find yourself alone on the road. You can slow down to try and find a group/rider to sit with. Or if you’re behind your target group, then you might just have to settle on the race being an individual time trial. It doesn’t matter at all being last honestly. So long as you get something from it. Maybe the guys ahead are having a good day by their standards. Maybe your having a bad one. So all you can really do is find improvement. If it’s a course you’ve done before you can try and beat your previous time. If you haven’t just look to set a target time. And practice how you want to construct a race. It’s a good way of learning how to manage your energy over the said distance and terrain. And the time you set will then be your target next time.
Sometimes in BKOOL it can feel like walking though treacle. But then you might make a massive step forwards. It is really weird the way it works sometimes like that. But stick with it mate.
The best races are definitley the handicap races. Because you often get involved in little mini races and it really improves your ‘race craft’. It can be painful when people go bombing past. I have lots of memories of people going past me like I was standing still. I later discovered watching the replays that people put down massive watts on purpose when they’re passing you so you can’t latch on. But to you it seems like that’s there normal speed and it can be a gut punch if you let it!
I hope that helps. Don’t hesitate to ask a question no matter how basic it sounds. I do the whole time!

With my own issue is much more straight forward!

In that last stage I did, apart from the usual contenders of old, @peterob and @JJRobinson amongst others put in cracking times. And I’m really happy that more and more people seem to be joining the league now. Could I beat those times? Maybe, maybe not... I’m not sure it’s worth debating. But I am sure they both buried themselves to get those times. So now I’m supposed to take their place in the team with the bs time I put up? No thanks, not me. We all know BKOOL is a little inconsistent. But when I beat Bridgy by 6 minutes it’s too much for me... let Pep be Pep. I’m sure some people want to ‘win’ at any cost. But I’m not having people talk about me like that further down the line. It’s not that important to me. I’d rather be able to look people in the eye.

I’m going to try to put up some legitimate results if my turbo lets me. If not then I’ll have a great time cheering on the team.

Guys let’s just make sure whoever gets into the team gets there on merit. There’s so much competition for places it’s brilliant! I know you’re all being good friends and I’m really grateful for that honestly. It’s really a great thing to be part of. But enough now I think. Let’s just focus on the legitimate results

We might not win the nations cup. You never know, maybe we will. Be we definitely gonna have the most fun!!!

Some great posts appearing the last couple of days, so I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring.

We come from a great nation of cheaters, and as Sky have shown us, a couple of antihistamine injections and a few extra toots on your inhaler go a long way towards dominance in your field. Either ride the cup on your magical Pro or send it to me and save me the time and effort it is taking me to mount a Honda Fireblade on my turbo.

I also appreciate that the above posts are credible, valid entires, and mine is just a flippant crock of BS, I just felt a bit left behind....like my cycling.