Team BKool CycleChat

[BILL S]

Thanks for the reply.

I can understand the principle. To be honest, I tend to stick to principles too, even when they don't always make sense to me or others, so I can see and accept where you're coming from on this. But I still hope you make the NC team!

Just a small update on me. Read your recommendations and decided to swap bikes on the turbo this morning. I put my best summer bike, a Guru Photon on the turbo, partly to compare against the bike that was on it (a Ridley Excalibur) and also because I've got Cont GP4000s on it - the Ridley has Cont 4 Seasons. Also, the Ridley has got a fairly cheap, entry level wheel that I've been using onto turbo, while the Guru has Shimano RS81s.

After writing my mega post last night the only course I could ride is my club's 10 mile TT course, as its on Bkool as a video ride. I beat my previous PB by 36 seconds, riding 26.00, and felt much stronger.

The Bkool route does feel similar to real life to me. But then maybe I'm stuck in the wrong sort of sweet spot on Bkool at the moment, where rides actually aren't that far out for me, and I need to get to the next level to start picking up some fairy dust!

Anyhow, thanks for the tips. I'm going to leave the Guru on for the next few rides to see whether there's definitely an improvement, or whether today was just a flukey one-off!

Thanks for your mega posting Del. Sounds to me like something is really holding you back so it'd be great if you can figure out what it is and find your rightful place out on the virtual road. I've always found that the tyre pressure is what makes the biggest difference by far. It can literally rob you of half your watts if it's not high enough. On the road it has hardly any effect but because of the turbo roller it makes a massive difference. The bike does make a difference too and I keep my best bike on the turbo, which I believe is also better for the bike, although many will disagree with that , especially the manufacturer of my bike .
Tyres also make a difference but I'd guess a maximum of 10% difference. I also like the GP4000s, the Ultra Sport, and at the moment I have a mavic so with tyres there doesn't seem to be any set type that's obviously best. For tyre pressure I think you can easily put in more than the max recommended and I'd suggest (as AAAC says) 140, 150 psi so you'll need a track pump for that. And yes you definitely need a fairly big fan. Not a USB fan like some on here have but a monster fan like @CRXAndy (about 4 feet across and about 2kw), ok maybe 18 inches across and 100w is more realistic (that's what I have). But huge fans are really cool for some reason.
Hope you find the problem Del and please keep posting about it until we get you up to speed .

 

[CXRAndy]

Can be worth upto 10bpm in lower HR when going flat out, that's you not the fan

Not a USB fan like some on here have but a monster fan like @CRXAndy (about 4 feet across and about 2kw), ok maybe 18 inches across and 100w is more realistic

 

[Crook Town AFC]

So that's where the thing off the top of my helicopter's gone, was wondering about that.

 

[Whorty]

That's one of the problems - any trainer issues tend to be intermittent. Sometimes it even changes mid ride. Sometimes we've found that many people all get a speed/watts boost above their normal levels on a particular course (no idea why!). Remember, we're not the only ones getting these kind of results sometimes - I think it is universal in bkool. The problem is where the line is between unfairly excessive speed/watts boost and the normal variables everyone else gets. I don't want our team to go into the Nations Cup with any sort of unfair advantage, but have a look at some of the w/kg from leading riders in the Winter Cup - many of whom we'll be up against. I am not denying they are very strong riders and athletes (this is clear from their real life performance I have seen on Facebook and Strava). However, bkool is allowing them to get w/kg figures higher than Chris Froome can achieve.......

something I've noticed as I've got stronger, and it is something that @AAAC 76C said ages ago, is if you can keep the power on especially when you hit inclines the Sim or trainer or both, don't know exactly, will let you can keep some of that higher speed and power. When I was just starting out, I'd hit a small incline and just pulling off the little power I had would have a big impact on the resistance and speed. Now, I can power into the inclines and for the time I can hold that power the speed stays good. As soon as I drop down the power the speed drops, and even if I go back to the original power I can't get the speed back up again. I think this is the 'fairy dust' that the strong riders see - holding 300+ power is the key I believe.

 

[CXRAndy]

something I've noticed as I've got stronger, and it is something that @AAAC 76C said ages ago, is if you can keep the power on especially when you hit inclines the Sim or trainer or both, don't know exactly, will let you can keep some of that higher speed and power. When I was just starting out, I'd hit a small incline and just pulling off the little power I had would have a big impact on the resistance and speed. Now, I can power into the inclines and for the time I can hold that power the speed stays good. As soon as I drop down the power the speed drops, and even if I go back to the original power I can't get the speed back up again. I think this is the 'fairy dust' that the strong riders see - holding 300+ power is the key I believe.

And that is why non power meter trainers can be manipulated to enhance the power, remember on/off technique. Lets not open the whole subject, we all know whats what with bkool

 

[Daddy Pig]

And that is why non power meter trainers can be manipulated to enhance the power, remember on/off technique. Lets not open the whole subject, we all know whats what with bkool

It's a shame that seperate power meters are so expensive otherwise that would probably solve a number of issues. I don't think that bkool like the thought that both their hardware and software is not good enough for consistent racing as it is not a level playing field even with their own trainers.
If I was taking things seriously I'd have got a tacx but thats £1000!
I just take bkool with a palm full of salt and just understand that its not accurate for anyone, but it's the laughs we have along they way that matter.
Annoying yes, but still full of sh1ts and giggles...

 

[Del C]

One other thing you post reminded me of Del. I have a wheel I use specifically for the turbo. The wheels nothing special. But the turbo will shred your tyre in a way the road never will. So it’s better to separate to two. It also means you don’t have to faff around swapping the quick release skewer everytime you switch from road to turbo.

Yep this is what I've been doing. The cheap entry level wheel is my normal turbo tyre.

I left the Shimano RS81 on the Guru as its a tyre I rode right through last summer and its due for a change before next summer, so I don't mind if it gets shredded.

 

[Randyberlin]

Is this upto date ?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...7_XvhHQRD4FC064vEjKty8/htmlview#gid=547112816

I need to do stage 2 next week

@Jim Brown you haven't entered your NC3 ride.

 

[Daddy Pig]

something I've noticed as I've got stronger, and it is something that @AAAC 76C said ages ago, is if you can keep the power on especially when you hit inclines the Sim or trainer or both, don't know exactly, will let you can keep some of that higher speed and power. When I was just starting out, I'd hit a small incline and just pulling off the little power I had would have a big impact on the resistance and speed. Now, I can power into the inclines and for the time I can hold that power the speed stays good. As soon as I drop down the power the speed drops, and even if I go back to the original power I can't get the speed back up again. I think this is the 'fairy dust' that the strong riders see - holding 300+ power is the key I believe.

I need to hold about 350 watts plus to get a fast ride. I noticed the difference with my injury, a little loss of around 80 watts power and I lost around 10 kph on a flat ride. In the real world those extra watts would probably only equate to 3kph at those speeds.

 

[Del C]

Yes, worth reiterating anyone planning to join this way must join during the warm up. It will mean a few minutes riding on the line until start time but personally I would probably be warming up during this time anyway. You don't have to pedal hard or anything - just enough to keep the rear wheel spinning. I would encourage anyone who thinks they may have half a chance of making the NC team to try joining in this way to get some practice at it and iron out any problems.

Probably a dumb question, but I think I should ask.

If we use this method, I take it we have to allow for the time it takes the back wheel to come to rest before you can start? I think the back wheel has to be stationary before you can start your ride, otherwise you remain stuck on the line? So, if your handicap is 4 minutes, probably best to stop pedalling about 3 min 50 seconds?

 

[<Tommy>]

It's a shame that seperate power meters are so expensive otherwise that would probably solve a number of issues. I don't think that bkool like the thought that both their hardware and software is not good enough for consistent racing as it is not a level playing field even with their own trainers.
If I was taking things seriously I'd have got a tacx but thats £1000!
I just take bkool with a palm full of salt and just understand that its not accurate for anyone, but it's the laughs we have along they way that matter.
Annoying yes, but still full of sh1ts and giggles...

100%! It’s a great laugh. The buzz around the handicap race last Tuesday says it all. No way I’m missing that this week! When people hit massive watts in certain races you have to just take it for what it is really. At the moment it’s just one of those things... In my own case though I can’t go into the NC knowing I’m motor doped every race! I need to put out some normal (by BKOOL standards) power, hopefully this week!

I do think in a couple of years or so the majority of people will have some type of powermeter based turbo. Maybe for some of the guys here it’ll happen when your pro units give up the ghost. Just because I think you can get decent ones for the same price as a pro unit now. So it’s a bit of a no brainier. And the secondhand market is very decent. This will obviously make readings more accurate. But that’s not to say anyone should feel obliged to buy one. I’m not sure I would have if I could of found a way of reducing the noise of the BKOOL pro to be honest.

 

[<Tommy>]

Yep this is what I've been doing. The cheap entry level wheel is my normal turbo tyre.

I left the Shimano RS81 on the Guru as its a tyre I rode right through last summer and its due for a change before next summer, so I don't mind if it gets shredded.

What I was doing for a long time was taking the old tyres of my comuter when they were near death and putting them on the turbo wheel. And then use them on the turbo until they were a complete shredded mess! Like Bill says pump them up to the extreme.

 

[Randyberlin]

Thanks for the reply.

I can understand the principle. To be honest, I tend to stick to principles too, even when they don't always make sense to me or others, so I can see and accept where you're coming from on this. But I still hope you make the NC team!

Just a small update on me. Read your recommendations and decided to swap bikes on the turbo this morning. I put my best summer bike, a Guru Photon on the turbo, partly to compare against the bike that was on it (a Ridley Excalibur) and also because I've got Cont GP4000s on it - the Ridley has Cont 4 Seasons. Also, the Ridley has got a fairly cheap, entry level wheel that I've been using onto turbo, while the Guru has Shimano RS81s.

After writing my mega post last night the only course I could ride is my club's 10 mile TT course, as its on Bkool as a video ride. I beat my previous PB by 36 seconds, riding 26.00, and felt much stronger.

The Bkool route does feel similar to real life to me. But then maybe I'm stuck in the wrong sort of sweet spot on Bkool at the moment, where rides actually aren't that far out for me, and I need to get to the next level to start picking up some fairy dust!

Anyhow, thanks for the tips. I'm going to leave the Guru on for the next few rides to see whether there's definitely an improvement, or whether today was just a flukey one-off!

Hey hey hey, let's not be hasty. Better leave the Ridley on and don't go over 60 psi. Safety first.

 

[Del C]

Thanks for your mega posting Del. Sounds to me like something is really holding you back so it'd be great if you can figure out what it is and find your rightful place out on the virtual road. I've always found that the tyre pressure is what makes the biggest difference by far. It can literally rob you of half your watts if it's not high enough. On the road it has hardly any effect but because of the turbo roller it makes a massive difference. The bike does make a difference too and I keep my best bike on the turbo, which I believe is also better for the bike, although many will disagree with that , especially the manufacturer of my bike .
Tyres also make a difference but I'd guess a maximum of 10% difference. I also like the GP4000s, the Ultra Sport, and at the moment I have a mavic so with tyres there doesn't seem to be any set type that's obviously best. For tyre pressure I think you can easily put in more than the max recommended and I'd suggest (as AAAC says) 140, 150 psi so you'll need a track pump for that. And yes you definitely need a fairly big fan. Not a USB fan like some on here have but a monster fan like @CRXAndy (about 4 feet across and about 2kw), ok maybe 18 inches across and 100w is more realistic (that's what I have). But huge fans are really cool for some reason.
Hope you find the problem Del and please keep posting about it until we get you up to speed .

Thanks Bill.

I've decided to try the Guru out for the next few rides and leave the RS81 tyre on as I said earlier replying to Tommy.

That'll help decide if it really makes a difference or not.

I've certainly been pumping up the tyres to 140/150 psi for a while now.

And that fan is a beast!

 

[Del C]

Hey hey hey, let's not be hasty. Better leave the Ridley on and don't go over 60 psi. Safety first.