Team BKool CycleChat

[AAAC 76C]

I hope you remembered your arm bands!

I am less dense than water on account of the alcohol.

 

[AAAC 76C]

AAAC, what are you doing there? I can't wait till my kids get older so that we can avoid those kind of places. Are there any kids along?

Nope , just me n' HID.
The park is next to our hotel and we had complimentary tickets so we gave it a go a a lazy day run.

 

[bridgy]

In the real world there's no resistance until you pedal fast enough to match the speed. In Bsim I had to push 800 REAL watts just to get to that point. And that is not all. If I just spin up to the 800 watt and rest, it doesn't register in bsim. I need to hold it for 10 seconds or so, just to make the slightest difference, and as soon as I stop it plummets down to blue number again. Hardly worth the effort, but a damn good workout .

What you're describing is exactly what I find (well I don't have a power meter so I can't be sure about exact watts) so I don't think your trainer is working unusually in this respect - . And if you were freewheeling down a steep hill in real life and you had to spin really fast to get to the point where you started gaining speed from your pedalling, you'd also be generating watts wouldn't you? Obviously on the bkool it's virtual speed so your rear wheel isn't spinning so you'll need more watts to actually get the rear wheel and the roller spinning to the required speed (even without much/any resistance) . I still think it makes sense to me

 

[<Tommy>]

This highlights one of bkools problems for me ( I know bkool bashing is a little boring ... ). It's very hard at this point to have faith in the readings / results.

 

[Randyberlin]

Randy my complaint is really not about not being 1st, 2nd or whatever. It's about losing touch with BSim racing. My setup seems to behave different in a way that I can't race with others up- and downhill. Maybe it'll work in the velodrome, but I fear I'm loosing the battle to the dark side

I know I was just giving you a hard time. This month is an odd one built for us "generously sized" riders. And still you beat me. Next month should be back to normal. And like a lot of us it is possible to walk (ride) in both worlds.

 

[Whorty]

What you're describing is exactly what I find (well I don't have a power meter so I can't be sure about exact watts) so I don't think your trainer is working unusually in this respect - . And if you were freewheeling down a steep hill in real life and you had to spin really fast to get to the point where you started gaining speed from your pedalling, you'd also be generating watts wouldn't you? Obviously on the bkool it's virtual speed so your rear wheel isn't spinning so you'll need more watts to actually get the rear wheel and the roller spinning to the required speed (even without much/any resistance) . I still think it makes sense to me

This is my understanding too. At say -2% if I don't pedal I blue number at about 30kph, but if I pedal hard I can move out of the blue and see faster white numbers. At about -8% I can't pedal fast enough to add to the blue numbers, but would be the same as out on the road (i'd effectively run out of gears).

 

[AAAC 76C]

This is my understanding too. At say -2% if I don't pedal I blue number at about 30kph, but if I pedal hard I can move out of the blue and see faster white numbers. At about -8% I can't pedal fast enough to add to the blue numbers, but would be the same as out on the road (i'd effectively run out of gears).

Lol
⛷

 

[AAAC 76C]

What you're describing is exactly what I find (well I don't have a power meter so I can't be sure about exact watts) so I don't think your trainer is working unusually in this respect - . And if you were freewheeling down a steep hill in real life and you had to spin really fast to get to the point where you started gaining speed from your pedalling, you'd also be generating watts wouldn't you? Obviously on the bkool it's virtual speed so your rear wheel isn't spinning so you'll need more watts to actually get the rear wheel and the roller spinning to the required speed (even without much/any resistance) . I still think it makes sense to me

This is a far more difficult scenario to simulate on a trainer with no descending motor and or power meter.

As your back wheel is not spinning at your blue speed you don't have to 'spin' to catch up with it therefore the moment you are having to apply pressure to the pedals your speed should increase but not to the factor you would see on a flat run due to the square factor (against velocity) for aerodynamic drag.

BSim does not appear to do this very well and seams to concentrate more on your gravitational speed which is proportional to your mass and slope (the hill not the slope of your saddle).

That said those that push big watts downhill like Jacob do seem to benefit with increased descending speed accepted that Jacob has muscular mass to help him as well ( polite and true in Jacobs case).

If LB is generating 800 watts going downhill he should be accelerating in BSim but no one should ever get above about 90 kph unless on a long 25% downhill.

I don't know if BSim is clever enough to take into account the speed at which it would become impossible for you to continue to apply torque but seeing as I had to use the word 'clever' I guess not.

BSim does bennifit the larger riders for sure going downhill which is correct but it does not simulate the increased draft effect very well so when in a group light riders can find it hard to tuck in and follow.

What I do know is that if you attack the crests of hills it does help you descend faster.
I think that the on/off technique also still works in BSim when descending but don't let that get out of the bag.

 

[LBHIFI]

What you're describing is exactly what I find (well I don't have a power meter so I can't be sure about exact watts) so I don't think your trainer is working unusually in this respect - . And if you were freewheeling down a steep hill in real life and you had to spin really fast to get to the point where you started gaining speed from your pedalling, you'd also be generating watts wouldn't you? Obviously on the bkool it's virtual speed so your rear wheel isn't spinning so you'll need more watts to actually get the rear wheel and the roller spinning to the required speed (even without much/any resistance) . I still think it makes sense to me

Not much point in going on about this, but just the fact that you mention Bkool and real life in the same sentence, tells me that we are not experiencing the same thing.

But real life or not, the most important thing is that I feel my Pro behave different in a way that takes the fun out of racing.

 

[JLaw]

Meanwhile, over on the Dark Side, 5 cyclechatters took part on the Kiss Europe race last night watched by LBHIFI .Zwift link and new race features all working well. monte retired due to ill health. Jeff stormed away to a great finish and I hung on for 13th in C only to be disqualified and told to bump up to B were Berty had put in a great effort. Group riding, teamwork , is everything in these races and I for one am looking forward to us riding and drafting to success as Team Cyclechat in the future. View attachment 377185

Hey! Thanks for the screenshot! I didn't take one figuring ZP would get the results right.

You'll note that the max w/kg for this category is 3.2. I mentioned in the splitter thread that I'm in 4th in the unofficial results on ZP with two riders in front of me having negative 20 minute wattage. They are Heinzmann & Masterson who are at 3.7 and 3.6 w/kg respectively on that screenshot.

Assuming ZP gets their data fixed Heinzmann and Masterson DQ, putting me in 2nd out of around 40 qualified riders. That's consistent with what I expected (it wasn't clear if Hughes was rounded up from 3.1x or rounded down from 3.2x from the screenshot, ZP has him at 3.17, so he qualifies and takes the win).

As I've also said, that particular course suits me well. In theory I ought to be able to post similar results on the other flat courses, but haven't yet. I guess that's a good short term goal.

 

[bobinski]

Jeff, my pleasure.
Mini Zwift link update yesterday gives live race placing on the mini map

 

[<Tommy>]

View attachment 377357 Jeff, my pleasure.
Mini Zwift link update yesterday gives live race placing on the mini map

Bob I have question about this but it's probably better asked in the other thread.

 

[bridgy]

Not much point in going on about this, but just the fact that you mention Bkool and real life in the same sentence, tells me that we are not experiencing the same thing.

But real life or not, the most important thing is that I feel my Pro behave different in a way that takes the fun out of racing.

You're right, I have no idea how your trainer feels for you and how it compares to my own experience - impossible to get to the bottom of these things in a forum discussion! Bkool and the bkool pro trainer are far from perfect I know - I've probably just got used to it, and it helps that I don't have a power meter to highlight the shortcomings!

 

[bridgy]

Anyone planning on doing a CG1 replay at 5pm today?

 

[BILL S]

Anyone planning on doing a CG1 replay at 5pm today?

I think I'll give it a miss as I've done it twice. Can someone else start the ride please.