The bakers' thread

[Dave 123]

And speaking of learning... the first picture is of bread baked by my 17 year old sidekick. This was her second time baking. I just supervised

The two tin loaves had rosemary stolen from a posh garden in them. We only ate the round one, it was perfect.

The second pic is my first attempt at whole meal. They tasted great

How can I get more rise?

 

[oldwheels]

Pouring rain and windy here today so cast about and in my usual slapdash way made a carrot “ thing “ as I got a bag of carrots in Aldi yesterday. No picture as most has been eaten.
Small bowl of SR flour
1 large grated carrot
Handful of mixed fruit
Large spoonful of treacle
Touch of salt and small dessert spoon of caster sugar
Half tsp of ground ginger
Mix the lot with water and then 40 minutes at 200 C

 

[Reynard]

The second pic is my first attempt at whole meal. They tasted great
View attachment 475810
How can I get more rise?

Is that 100% wholemeal?

If so, you won't get a very springy loaf. The bits of bran cut the gluten strands, and shorter strands won't stretch as much.

You're probably better off using a 50-50 mix of wholemeal to white.

Also, bake in a clay pot. They're not that expensive and are a good investment. (See my previous post re oven spring.) Half the bake time in the pot with the lid on, and finish the bake with the lid off.

 

[Dave 123]

Is that 100% wholemeal?

If so, you won't get a very springy loaf. The bits of bran cut the gluten strands, and shorter strands won't stretch as much.

You're probably better off using a 50-50 mix of wholemeal to white.

Also, bake in a clay pot. They're not that expensive and are a good investment. (See my previous post re oven spring.) Half the bake time in the pot with the lid on, and finish the bake with the lid off.

100g white 400 whole meal

 

[Reynard]

100g white 400 whole meal

So 80% wholegrain... Still quite high. Try a 50-50 mix and see where it takes you.

Also, what percentage hydration are you using? You may well want to up it some at that level of wholegrain, and that should also give you a bouncier loaf.

 

[Dave 123]

So my latest sourdough was more sour than doughy...

I did everything that the recipe said to the letter.

No ride. Slightly bitter crust that was as hard as hell.

Tastes lovely toasted though...

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I did everything that the recipe said to the letter.

Could you post the recipe here? Also, did you bake it on a tray, in a pot etc., how warm is your kitchen (if that's where the proving took place)? Did you make any adjustments in the proving time or in the amount of water used? How active was the starter you used? How long before you used it in the dough had you refreshed it?

My first guess would be the lack of rise suggests it may have been overpoved so that the structure was too weak to support any rise.

 

[Dave 123]

Could you post the recipe here? Also, did you bake it on a tray, in a pot etc., how warm is your kitchen (if that's where the proving took place)? Did you make any adjustments in the proving time or in the amount of water used? How active was the starter you used? How long before you used it in the dough had you refreshed it?

My first guess would be the lack of rise suggests it may have been overpoved so that the structure was too weak to support any rise.

Baked on a pizza stone
Proving in airing cupboard
Proving and water to recipe
Starter had been fed lots over the week on advice from pastry chef at work

 

[Reynard]

My first guess would be the lack of rise suggests it may have been overpoved so that the structure was too weak to support any rise.

Or an underactive starter... A sourdough culture can take up to a month to become reliable.

Could be a combination of both though...

 

[Reynard]

Baked on a pizza stone
Proving in airing cupboard
Proving and water to recipe
Starter had been fed lots over the week on advice from pastry chef at work

Don't use the airing cupboard - it's too warm. Does point to overproving.

Generally, the cooler, the better - and chuck the clock out of the window. The rise of a dough depends on far too many variables for a clock to be a reliable method of determining when your dough is proved just right.

 

[Dave 123]

Don't use the airing cupboard - it's too warm. Does point to overproving.

Generally, the cooler, the better - and chuck the clock out of the window. The rise of a dough depends on far too many variables for a clock to be a reliable method of determining when your dough is proved just right.

Ok

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Baked on a pizza stone
Proving in airing cupboard
Proving and water to recipe
Starter had been fed lots over the week on advice from pastry chef at work

First off, as Reynard has already pointed out, an airing cupboard is too warm. I prove mine where I can see it, on the coffee table if I am reading or on the kitchen table if I'm doing other baking stuff. It is never out of my sight and I check it frequently. Unless you're baking to a tight schedule, time is your friend and you want things to be slow -it improves the results.

Proving and hydration to the recipe sounds like the right thing to do but no two kitchens are the same, heck , the recipe might even be from another country with a different climate. If you followed it to the letter then it doesn't work for where you are (assuming you didn't overprove it in the cupboard) so you'll need to make adjustments.

I feed my starter several hours before I need to use it. Once it's foamed up like a huge aerated marshmallow it's ready. I can tell by looking at it but a good test is take a spoonful of it and place it in a glass of water. It's ready if it floats.

I can't add a lot more, you need to experiment by adjusting one aspect at a time to see what happens. But I recommend you go by look and feel over timings. Your dough should go into the oven while it's still on the rise and feels springy. If you press it with your finger and it doesn't bounce back fairly quickly, you've overpoved it.

 

[Reynard]

I tend to feed my starter about 12 hours before I make my levain. I rarely use starter direct in a bread unless I have too much of it - I only keep a small quantity going, which means I need to do a build stage before I can make my dough.

I'm a big fan of leaving bread dough in the fridge for the bulk ferment as I know it's not going to run away with me - great for overnight or if I'm too busy during the day to keep checking. Final proof after shaping tends to happen a lot faster than the bulk ferment, so as @glasgowcyclist says, it's better to keep it in sight. And it's always better to err on the side of underproving - rather a burst loaf than a frisbee.

Breadmaking is as much an art as it is a science. You learn by doing, and the more you bake, the better your bread will get. However, there are a lot of different variables, so if you can, only change one at the time.

 

[Dave 123]

So much to learn....

Thanks @glasgowcyclist and @Reynard for your time and advice!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

You learn by doing, and the more you bake, the better your bread will get.

I remember my first sourdough was similar to the one that @Dave 123 produced above only mine was more like a discus. The crust was like thick ceramic so the knife just skated across the top.

Subsequent loaves were better but still mediocre until one day I made a belter; lovely rise, beautiful colour, fabulous crust etc.
I was delighted for a split second and then said out loud, "Shįt! What did I do right?"