Gillstay
Über Member
Yep , neither is the way forward, that's for sure. Do people think they are exempt from the effects of global warming or just think everyone else should do something while they carry on in quite a mad fashion ? I don't get it.
The CycleChat Large SUV Owners Club thread
- Thread starter Drago
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Yep , neither is the way forward, that's for sure. Do people think they are exempt from the effects of global warming or just think everyone else should do something while they carry on in quite a mad fashion ? I don't get it.
My son's Y has over 550bhp being the performance model. It's not an off road vehicle at all. Very roomy 5 seater hatchback
FishFright
More wheels than sense
Almost everyone thinks what they do is justified and its only other peoples vehicles/foreign holidays etc count. Or worse because (fill in country of choice ) isn't perfect we don't need to do anything.
Jody
Stubborn git
They're 4x4 though. My point was that it has everything the Defender has (that is being slated) apart from the body shape, but doesn't seem to cause people to froth at the mouth.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
The tesla (1) is smaller (though not much) (2) has a much lower bonnet, so less dangerous in collisions with cyclists and pedestrians (3) has much lower carbon emissions.
So whilst terrible, a lot better than a defender.
None of this is hard to understand.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Who will speak up for the poor, oppressed drivers of antisocial vehicles, the true victims in society?
Jody
Stubborn git
Don't change the goal posts as my response was to "They're hideous, overpowered, overweight (two and a half tons!), and far too expensive to take off-road."
So as I put, other than the body shape, they are fairly comparable.
As it's almost the same size, weight and power (but much much faster on acceleration), does the Tesla give you the same level on intimidation when passed?
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I've not moved any goalposts, and they're not comparable:
They're not at all comparable in carbon emissions.
The defender is more intimidating too, for the reasons already given. It's also more able to ignore obstructions like curbs and traffic calming.
Neither will ever be much used off road.
Again, none of this is hard (except, hard to accept by people who want to justify owning these)
Jody
Stubborn git
I'm not justifying them at all but rather playing devil's advocate. I'm sure you've noted the times I have agreed with you on certain points on the other thread? I'm not against a way forward but its an emotional argument a lot of the time. One minute it's about body shape. Then about being scared whilst cycling, then weight, then emissions and then circle back to the start.
Replying only to the points made, both cars are comparable. You included emissions and I gave a caveat on body shape.
Almost any car can drive over traffic calming measures at high speed so it being a 4x4 is irrelevant. The same as almost any car can bump up a curb. It's another emotional argument.
One close pass is exactly that. 4x4, small shopping car, bus or whatever, the point stands from the other thread that if its travelling at speed then your probably going to be dead.
None of my points are hard to understand either but if there is absolutely no leeway or understanding your side, there will be no leeway in mine.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I disagree. 4x4s are far more capable of this, both objectively because of their design and in my own, subjective experience.
Again the evidence suggests that you're far more likely to suffer from a collision with a 4x4. I've posted links to this before.
And overall, they are not.
Jody
Stubborn git
Replying to the points made. Same size, weight and bhp. Not sure how you can argue that.
Still interested to know if you feel as intimidated by something like a Tesla Y as you do a Range Rover and why?
The point about injury is in reply to your being passed at speed. At speed, they're all going to kill you but maybe with a little variance in outcome if you're lucky. At lower speed your point stands but that doesn't mean they need banning. Personally, a Fiesta and lorry give me exactly the same feeling when getting close so maybe I don't understand your increased intimidation aspect that well.
Any car can ignore traffic calming or bump up a curb. By design a 4x4 may not feel it as much but any car can go over them at any speed. It's the idiot behind the wheel that makes that decision. If someone asked me how I would describe a Range Rover driver I'd say they are fairly safe. The majority I see are being driven at the right speed and not taking risks. Maybe courtesy lacks a little but that's a personal observation.
Pollution, you may have a point and we should be heading towards greater economy but as I've said time over, you could compare something like a family sports hatch and it will have an equal or worst MPG than the supposed "gas guzzler" (Defender up thread) that everyone is frothing about. But that's OK because it's not as easily identifiable.
There is no easy answer but the discussion needs to go on. Maybe on the other thread though? -------->
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Slick
Guru
I must have missed that, what changed?
There was a case Coca Cola V HMRC with regards to certain two row seater vans. Coca Cola ultimately lost re benefit in kind. These vans were declared as company cars for tax purposes.
This has led to HMRC now classifying pickups with two rows of seats which many are, as cars. This has knock on for BIK taxation levels (massive leap in running one of these), then there is VAT implications for commercial vehicles.
My wife retired Chartered accountant, says if you can demonstrate your pickup is exempt and used solely for commercial work, you could still claim VAT and reduced BIK.
She expects the overall pickup market sales will collapse, because most use their vehicles multi purpose, private and commercial.
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