The Poppy "Fascists"

[J.Y.Kelly]

This is a very naive and untrue statement.

Many of these troops are from areas where there is little or no opportunity.

Rather then joining up because they want to kill people they join up because it is a chance to learn a trade, gain qualifications and gain opportunities that are not available otherwise.

The Welsh valleys for instance are over represented in Infantry Regiments for these very reasons.

And they know full well that part of the job is killing people. I'm like the weather me, I take absolutely no notice of criticism.

 

[J.Y.Kelly]

Well, that made you very popular around here, didn't it J.Y.Kelly.

See post above.

 

[Over The Hill]

I would say it is about and for those who fought in wars rather than any war itself. The two are very different.

While I am 100% against the two most recent wars in Iraq and Afghanestan and do not think we should have fought them I am 100% behind supporting the troops there now and the victims of the wars.

You can support those who fought but not the fight.

 

[snailracer]

I've never worn a poppy, and don't intend to start.
This is where I make myself really unpopular: All servicemen nowdays are volunteers, it's their choice to join up and kill people.
I am not interested in remembering the past, because the human race never learns from it's mistakes.
My father lost 5 brothers and a sister during world war 2 and never wanted to talk about it.
Everyone has a choice, even conscripts.

Don't waste your time explaining to me about " dying for your country" because there is no such thing.

From wikipedia:
"Remembrance Day (also known as Poppy Day, Armistice Day or Veterans Day) is a memorial day observed in Commonwealth countries to remember the sacrifices of members of the armed forces and civilians in times of war..."

Civilians would include firemen, paramedics, merchant sailors, etc. who didn't "join up", never mind "join up and kill people". Presumably, a fireman who gets hurt doing his job during the blitz is not worthy of your consideration?

Now I can see why you might object to Veteran's Day, which in some countries is on the same day, but that is something different. Remembrance day is for "the war dead", which includes both civilian and military.

 

[snailracer]

The only charity I give my time and cash to are the Salvation Army, and I'm not religious in the slightest.

The Salvation Army seems quite happy to provide welfare services to the military, and are prominently represented during wreath-laying at remembrance services.

From wikipedia:

"...The Red Shield has its origins in Salvation Army work during wartimes. At the end of the 19th Century, Staff-Captain Mary Murray was sent by William Booth to support British troops serving in the Boer War in South Africa. Then, in 1901, this same officer was given the task of establishing the Naval and Military League, the forerunner of the Red Shield Services.

Salvation Army officers serving in the Red Shield Services in wartime performed many functions. The Doughnut Girls of World War I are an early example, serving refreshments to troops in the trenches. They also provided first aid stations, ambulances, chaplaincy, social clubs, Christian worship and other frontline services.[sup][18][/sup]

This symbol is still used in Blue Shield Services that serve the British Armed Forces but it is widely used as a simple, more readily identifiable symbol in many Salvation Army settings. It is common to see the Red Shield used on casual Salvation Army uniform...[sup]"

[/sup]

 

[Andy in Sig]

I spent 22 years in the Army and I must say that I get narked when I hear about people being pressurised into wearing a poppy. The fact is that the forces are there to defend certain freedoms, one of which is freedom of choice and that includes whether you want to wear a poppy or not.

On a purely personal level I find it good that most people want to recognise our war dead. Not all of them wanted to be in the forces (especially in the two world wars) but most of them got on with it. That to me (a volunteer who did want to be in the Army) is worthy of respect and admiration. It's hard now to imagine what some people must have gone through, especially in WWI. If anybody does want to try to grasp a bit about suffering, determination and courage, I would suggest dipping into one of the books about Passchendaele (possibly the most horrible battle the British Army has ever been involved in). Lyn MacDonald's They Called It Passchendaele is as good an account as any.

 

[CharlesF]

The poppy "fascists" are indicative our British society today, people are intolerant, highly critical of others, expect the morals of a saint from everyone else, but never ever must you direct the same standards at them.

Although buying a poppy is fund raising, I never think of it in that way. I wear a poppy to remember everyone affected by wars past and present, and if I could find a white poppy, I would wear both. I also attend a Remembrance Day service specifically as a sign of respect to service men and women who died fighting a war. As an ex-serviceman and with a son, nephews and cousins in the armed forces the service is a very emotional time for me. I also wear a help for Heroes band which is another very personal choice.

No matter my feelings, I would never expect anyone else to follow my lead, it is a very personal decision and I don't like the idea of someone being forced to copy me.

 

[downfader]

I've never worn a poppy, and don't intend to start.
This is where I make myself really unpopular: All servicemen nowdays are volunteers, it's their choice to join up and kill people.
I am not interested in remembering the past, because the human race never learns from it's mistakes.
My father lost 5 brothers and a sister during world war 2 and never wanted to talk about it.
Everyone has a choice, even conscripts.

Don't waste your time explaining to me about " dying for your country" because there is no such thing.

That statement above shows that you have little understanding of the forces themselves and the people who join up. As other have said the forces are a career oportunity for many, but there are many who volunteer because they want to do something that helps others.

I have known many servicemen and women over the years (working in the catering trade you tend to meet a fair load) and pretty much every one of them felt they wanted to help protect people and societies not that different to ours. I knew a guy who fought in the Faulklands - losing many mates in the process, he felt had they not gone in then the communities over there would have been destroyed. I knew a bloke who was in Sierra Leone where there was genocide, and I'd imagine those that went to Kosovo wanted to stop this terrible event.

Its true, you dont die for a country, you die for a cause.

 

[Cubist]

I'm like the weather me, I take absolutely no notice of criticism.

Struggling to get the word "****" through the swear filter..........................

 

[decca234uk]

I usually buy quiet a few poppies because I can't pin them on right so end up losing them. I have never felt any pressure to wear one. I choose to do so but I don't think there's anything wrong with people who don't wear them. it's a question of free choice.

 

[Maz]

why would you want to pay and then not wear one?

Hay fever?

 

[661-Pete]

I had always assumed (although some accounts suggest otherwise), this supposed 'pressure' to conform was a myth, unless you're a newsreader. Reminds me of the celebrated spat over Peter Sissons, the Queen Mum, and the burgundy tie...

 

[Keith Oates]

I have just been to Hong Kong today and there are many people (mostly Chinese young and old ladies) selling Poppies but not pressurising anyone. There were also many people wearing them, again mostly Hong Kong Chinese men and woman plus also some Westerners of which I was one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[snailracer]

I have just been to Hong Kong today and there are many people (mostly Chinese young and old ladies) selling Poppies but not pressurising anyone. There were also many people wearing them, again mostly Hong Kong Chinese men and woman plus also some Westerners of which I was one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

Hong Kong was invaded and occupied by the Japanese during WWII, with their typical brutality. If that had happened in Britain, you'd see a lot more people wearing poppies.

 

[Hover Fly]

Strange that you see very few French wearing Bleuits (cornflowers), more British wearing poppies, and even thought 11 November is a holiday in France they don't have 2 minutes silence or wreath laying.