Glasgow has the same issue. Riding around the city during the recent championships, I was struck by the number of these illegal electric motorbikes ridden by couriers and food delivery guys - many of them not even making a token effort to appear to be pedalling, or to adhere to the highway code.
Thoughts on motorbike style eBikes?
- Thread starter Boopop
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Glasgow has the same issue. Riding around the city during the recent championships, I was struck by the number of these illegal electric motorbikes ridden by couriers and food delivery guys - many of them not even making a token effort to appear to be pedalling, or to adhere to the highway code.
Slick
Guru
To be fair to the ones I see around the pedestrianised areas of the town, they are mostly reasonably careful and not too fast.
Let me take you back to the 1970s, when electric bikes like we have now were about as feasible for personal transport as jetpacks. Raleigh's most popular bike by some margin was the Twenty, a bike with 20" wheels.
Enthusiasts who rode lightweights scoffed at them. Small, fat 1 3/8" wheels? How could anyone use something so inefficient? And no suspension! It was considered by most enthusiasts to be a really terrible bike. But it wasn't!
They outsold lightweights because to non-cyclists they were reliable, unpretentious transport. You didn't need special clothes, or to belong to a club. Lots of room for your shopping, easy for more than one person to use (you can adjust saddle and bars without tools), they take up less space, and they're cheaper than shoe leather.
The sort of person who bought a Twenty 50 years ago chooses a bike like this today. They don't give a stuff about efficiency, they just want to get to work. Yes, the motor does do much of the work, but what's wrong with that? You are talking about efficiency and it's true - a 175w cyclist would not be able to ride one of these fast without a motor so yes, by your definition they aren't as efficient as a "proper" bike. But a 250w motor makes the resistance of the tyres and the weight of the bike irrelevant.
There are LOADS of good engineering reasons to design a town bike like this:
That there are couriers riding bikes that look superficially like these but are illegal is a different question. Let's establish that it is possible to build either of the bikes you've posted photos of with completely legal pedelec motors. I have a friend with a RadRunner - that's completely legal, with 20x4.0 tyres and a 250w hub motor. It's fun and practical personal transport.
TL; DR; A vehicle that goes up to 15.5mph with human input and a 250w motor is far more efficient than a 2000kg car with a 37500w engine and a top speed of 200mph without any human input when you're talking about getting a single adult from point a to point b in a town centre. That's probably the comparison you should look at.
Enthusiasts who rode lightweights scoffed at them. Small, fat 1 3/8" wheels? How could anyone use something so inefficient? And no suspension! It was considered by most enthusiasts to be a really terrible bike. But it wasn't!
They outsold lightweights because to non-cyclists they were reliable, unpretentious transport. You didn't need special clothes, or to belong to a club. Lots of room for your shopping, easy for more than one person to use (you can adjust saddle and bars without tools), they take up less space, and they're cheaper than shoe leather.
The sort of person who bought a Twenty 50 years ago chooses a bike like this today. They don't give a stuff about efficiency, they just want to get to work. Yes, the motor does do much of the work, but what's wrong with that? You are talking about efficiency and it's true - a 175w cyclist would not be able to ride one of these fast without a motor so yes, by your definition they aren't as efficient as a "proper" bike. But a 250w motor makes the resistance of the tyres and the weight of the bike irrelevant.
There are LOADS of good engineering reasons to design a town bike like this:
- Small wheels give a low centre of gravity for load carrying.
- The design of the frame makes for a bike that takes up less space - important if you live in a small space.
- The step-through design makes for more confident mounting and dismounting, and the
- Small wheels are inherently stronger than big wheels. That's important, as hub motors stress wheels in ways human powered wheels aren't.
- Big tyres at low pressure are less prone to punctures.
- Big tyres at low pressure soak up potholes. You will not pancake one of these wheels going into a pothole, like you can with a 23mm road bike wheel. It's a much more practical solution than the suspension a bike of this type with skinnier tyres usually has.
That there are couriers riding bikes that look superficially like these but are illegal is a different question. Let's establish that it is possible to build either of the bikes you've posted photos of with completely legal pedelec motors. I have a friend with a RadRunner - that's completely legal, with 20x4.0 tyres and a 250w hub motor. It's fun and practical personal transport.
TL; DR; A vehicle that goes up to 15.5mph with human input and a 250w motor is far more efficient than a 2000kg car with a 37500w engine and a top speed of 200mph without any human input when you're talking about getting a single adult from point a to point b in a town centre. That's probably the comparison you should look at.
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steveindenmark
Legendary Member
I think they are bought by wannabees. I just have not worked out what they wannabee.
Jameshow
Veteran
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
As far as I am concerned we have normal unpowered bikes and a small concession for pedal assisted (i.e. you HAVE to pedal to get anywhere) bikes with a small (max 250W) motor which is limited to a reasonable speed and can be looked on as a bike for all regulations purposes
i.e. it can go on cycle paths, including shared paths with pedestrians and you don;t need to have a motorbike type helmet
Anything else is a motorbike of some kind and needs to stick to the motorbike regulations such as not using cycle lanes and paths.
People need to stop referring to the 2 things as "ebikes" and therefore lumping them into the same category. If it walk like a duck and quacks like a duck but makes a loud screaming sound and flames shoot out of its bum when it takes off and flies at 100 mph then it might just be a jet air plane and not a duck!
I like the idea of electric motorbikes - just call them what they are and I just wish someone would enforce the regulations (although I'm not saying how on Earth they can do that!!)
i.e. it can go on cycle paths, including shared paths with pedestrians and you don;t need to have a motorbike type helmet
Anything else is a motorbike of some kind and needs to stick to the motorbike regulations such as not using cycle lanes and paths.
People need to stop referring to the 2 things as "ebikes" and therefore lumping them into the same category. If it walk like a duck and quacks like a duck but makes a loud screaming sound and flames shoot out of its bum when it takes off and flies at 100 mph then it might just be a jet air plane and not a duck!
I like the idea of electric motorbikes - just call them what they are and I just wish someone would enforce the regulations (although I'm not saying how on Earth they can do that!!)
gbb
Legendary Member
- Location
- Peterborough
And the same applies to escooter riders to a great degree.
My front door has a porch that opens right up onto a fairly wide paved path , the amount of ebike riders and scooters particularly that vroom straight past, less then a foot from corners where vision is obscured, ...utter thoughtlessness and stupidity.
I'm constantly constantly telling my grandkids, stop at one particular corner, wait and look. It's a footpath, always was but the recklessness of people astounds me.
Did you witness it or is it a tweet or something? Interested in if they're just going for obvious candidates or if they're stopping all ebikes and checking for compliance stickers etc. Mine are legal but I'd rather not get pulled over while they establish that fact, though I'm in W Yorks not SE London
I witnessed it.
Overlarge frame and batteries, by the looks of things.
Why are you worried? If you are riding a legal e-assist bike then you have nothing to worry about.
In London, its getting to the point where most if not all food delivery drivers are riding over powered ebikes/e-motorbikes.
I'm not worried at all and I'm happy they're cracking down on those taking the weewee. I could just do without the hassle of being pulled over, it would waste both my time and theirs. I do suspect they'll be targeting the low hanging fruit though.
classic33
Leg End Member
West Yorkshire Police were pulling some over near the corn exchange, around 9pm. Where the cycle lane cuts across the pavement.
Nearly everyone of those I saw pulled were delivery riders.
