Thoughts please on liability - crash in race training

[DCLane]

Your thoughts please on what happened this evening; unfortunately I didn't witness it and neither did any of the other adults there:

My youngest was at a training session with others. He was involved in an incident which has damaged the frame of another child's bike. I've got him to write down and draw what happened before he went to bed this evening.

They were doing short loops round a series of cones to a far point and back at speed in a group of 4 - two pairs. The child who's bike was damaged was in 2nd position (child A), child B was behind him and my child was at the back (child C). A turned left on a shortened loop, turning before the far point, calling out. Child B swerved round him and child C went into the rear chainstay, with a crack on the chainstay. Child C says he didn't hear him call out and tried to stop, but was going too quick. Both fell over as a result but there's no damage to Child C's bike.

Where might liability lie? Mine's got BC insurance but I'm also concerned at what happened, as it's not just about the bike.

Someone there's described it as a racing incident but there's now damage and upset children. As you can guess I'd like to resolve it as best as possible for all concerned.

 

[400bhp]

It was an accident involving two children. I don't believe there is a liability issue on any of the children (which essentially would mean liability on the parents).

In fact there's a specific clause in BC insurance which states (IIRC) you cannot claim off someone else with BC insurance, so if Child A has BC insurance then that may mean it's a non starter.

There may be liability on the organisers though.

If it was me I would move away from such legalistic talk and offer something towards fixing child A's bike. Do onto others and all that.

 

[DCLane]

If it was me I would move away from such legalistic talk and offer something towards fixing child A's bike. Do onto others and all that.

Thanks - which was where I was going. The parent's saying it's a new £900 frame and can't be repaired. The frame's £676 at Ribble new, plus fork at £151 so I can see the cost there. They've both got BC Silver cover.

I'm going to sleep on it and consider what to do tomorrow.

 

[400bhp]

Thanks - which was where I was going. The parent's saying it's a new £900 frame and can't be repaired. The frame's £676 at Ribble new, plus fork at £151 so I can see the cost there. They've both got BC Silver cover.

I'm going to sleep on it and consider what to do tomorrow.

I wouldn't be offering full payment.

The way I would look at this. It's a bunch of inexperienced kids on bikes and there's bound to be the odd coming together. As parents you have put your child into cycle training so you have accepted these risks. However, there is some give and take with such incidents and what a reasonable person would do in such circumstances. I assume that the Ribble bike is one of the more expensive bikes on show. As such I think it's unreasonable for the parent of the expensive frame to expect others to subsidise that risk (relatively more expensive bike) to some extent.

 

[jifdave]

what are the rules of the training session?
is it an insured club/centre?
how old is the ribble? would it be likely to have a warranty?

 

[DCLane]

what are the rules of the training session?
is it an insured club/centre?
how old is the ribble? would it be likely to have a warranty?

The Ribble is new.

It's a proper training centre, run under a range of rules. I'd prefer not to divulge which atm as they've been great with him.

 

[jifdave]

The Ribble is new.

It's a proper training centre, run under a range of rules. I'd prefer not to divulge which atm as they've been great with him.

id perhaps have a word with them and see what theyre position on it would be

 

[DCLane]

id perhaps have a word with them and see what theyre position on it would be

Good suggestion - I did that and they said it was probably a racing incident.

 

[Tyke]

BC advise that you Always check that the event is insured. Before participating in competitive events always consult the event organiser with regard to the existence and extent of liability insurance cover provided for all riders and officials.

Have you checked with the training center ? They must have some insurance in place in case there is an injury to anyone there.

 

[YahudaMoon]

You could change clubs?

 

[DCLane]

Have you checked with the training center ? They must have some insurance in place in case there is an injury to anyone there.

Thanks Tyke. It's not an event, it's a regular weekly training session.

They're BC qualified coaches and I've checked their website / documents but it doesn't state anything about insurance. There's a membership fee, which we've paid, plus a weekly fee.

You could change clubs?

Difficult; they're the best local kids coaching for 30+ miles around. And given my youngest has just been lent one of their bikes I wouldn't want to.

 

[Tyke]

If they are taking a fee then they should have some sort liability insurance this sort of thing is expected to happen when they are teaching people to ride so close who are not used to it. It must happen all the time but in most cases will not result in any damage but what would they have done if someone had a broken bone. Might be worth talking to them about it.

 

[Profpointy]

Many posters have misunderstood the organisers' liability & their insurance. This is to cover the organisers if they are sued successfully. ie organisers have to be at fault. Their insurance will not cover general accidents which are not the organisers' fault. Any insurance is not provided as a general convenience for participants.

Likewise, for participants to sue each other, blame needs to be established first. In car terms, you can only claim off the other fella if it's his fault - "knock for knock" is a frequent outcome after all.

To paraphrase the slogan "where there's no blame, there's no claim".

I don't know the ages of the kids, but for a kid to sue another kid, it's only worthwhile if the loser actually has some money. Not really worth winning the £900 quid, and having it paid off at 50pence per week out of their pocket money.

Unless your kid has manifestly done something particularly stupid or vindictive, I'd be inclined to philosophically shrug, and leave it at that. If they sue, it sounds like an uphill battle, and unless your kid has a trust fund, pointless.

 

[buggi]

if child A turned early and child b obscured child c's view of this, then surely its child A's fault? I was in a group ride once where one rider emergency braked bcoz she missed the turn. The rider behind swerved around her and unfortunately i was next in line and didn't stand a chance. Resulting in my head trauma and broken collar bone. Clearly her fault and they probably all knew it bcoz strangely no one knew what happened (i had memory loss ).... Then i found out off someone else who had been filled in on the details. Obviously they all knew she as liable. I don't do group rides now.

 

[Spinney]

What buggi said...

Also, does that kind of crash normally have enough impact to break part of a frame? Sounds like the other parents trying first to claim under warranty would be the way to go.