Throttle
- Thread starter Biker man
- Start date
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David EBiker
Well-Known Member
For those interested in the detail, everything can be found in the 200+ page Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval (MSVA) Inspection Manual Amendment 5 2019. And the new category L1e category 250W LPM
The Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval Scheme applies to: Mopeds Low powered moped (L1e)
· a 2, 3 or 4 wheeled moped with pedals
· with auxiliary propulsion not exceeding 1kW
· with a maximum design speed not exceeding 25km/h (16mph)
· includes sub-category 250W LPM (see definition below)
250W LPM 250 Watt Low Powered Moped.
This is a sub-group of Low Powered Moped that meets the criteria laid down in the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle Regulations 1983 (SI 1983 No. 1168) as amended by SI 2015 No. 24. The requirements are that the vehicle:
· Be fitted with pedals by means of which it is capable of being propelled.
· Be fitted with no motor other than an electric motor, which has a maximum continuous rated power, which does not exceed 250 watts and cannot propel the vehicle when it is travelling at more than 15.5 mph. (Note: the official speed is 25 km/h, MSVA will accept declarations up to and including 16 mph as per low powered mopeds).
These vehicles will be required to meet the standards applied to Low Powered Mopeds except where specified.
To find all the allowances for 250W LPM you will need to trawl through all 200 pages of the above-mentioned document.
There you will find such information as below which applies to stands
Stands January 2019 1/1 1 Application
This examination applies to all 2 wheeled vehicles. Requirements 2b, 2c and 3b do not apply to any vehicle which is designed in such a way that it cannot be propelled by its engine when the stand is extended i.e. an inhibitor (interlock) is fitted.
Requirements 2b, 2c and 4a and 4b do not apply to a 250W LPM with a mass in running order of less than 35 kg
2. Check that the prop stand;
b) is able to swing back automatically into the retracted or travelling position when the vehicle returns to its normal (vertical) position, or
c) is able to swing back automatically into the retracted or travelling position following the first contact with the ground when the vehicle moves forward as a deliberate action of the rider
4. Where required, check an inhibitor is; Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval Manual Stands January 2019, 1/2 1
a) fitted
So……, the above rules DO NOT apply to the new 250W LPM category.
It goes on and on like this!
IN SUMMARY
The DfT have kindly informed us through the BAGB that they have
**"Updated the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval test to include a sub-category for "Twist and go" electric bikes, which require type approval before sale but which can otherwise be used like other 'normal' e-bikes.
Fewer modifications will now be needed for these machines to pass the test and gain type approval. The MSVA test costs £55 per individual vehicle.
It can be then used essentially as a normal bicycle (although the
rider must be aged 14 or over). But if such a bike has a motor which
can be operated without the rider pedalling, it has since Jan 2016
required type approval before sale (in accordance with EU regulation 168/2013) and is known as a Twist & Go (T&G) EAPC."
FOR MORE DETAIL
See
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
http://tinyurl.com/ycl3zz4l
http://tinyurl.com/y94cpfo8
With thanks to Peter Elland BAGB
All the best, David
The Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval Scheme applies to: Mopeds Low powered moped (L1e)
· a 2, 3 or 4 wheeled moped with pedals
· with auxiliary propulsion not exceeding 1kW
· with a maximum design speed not exceeding 25km/h (16mph)
· includes sub-category 250W LPM (see definition below)
250W LPM 250 Watt Low Powered Moped.
This is a sub-group of Low Powered Moped that meets the criteria laid down in the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle Regulations 1983 (SI 1983 No. 1168) as amended by SI 2015 No. 24. The requirements are that the vehicle:
· Be fitted with pedals by means of which it is capable of being propelled.
· Be fitted with no motor other than an electric motor, which has a maximum continuous rated power, which does not exceed 250 watts and cannot propel the vehicle when it is travelling at more than 15.5 mph. (Note: the official speed is 25 km/h, MSVA will accept declarations up to and including 16 mph as per low powered mopeds).
These vehicles will be required to meet the standards applied to Low Powered Mopeds except where specified.
To find all the allowances for 250W LPM you will need to trawl through all 200 pages of the above-mentioned document.
There you will find such information as below which applies to stands
Stands January 2019 1/1 1 Application
This examination applies to all 2 wheeled vehicles. Requirements 2b, 2c and 3b do not apply to any vehicle which is designed in such a way that it cannot be propelled by its engine when the stand is extended i.e. an inhibitor (interlock) is fitted.
Requirements 2b, 2c and 4a and 4b do not apply to a 250W LPM with a mass in running order of less than 35 kg
2. Check that the prop stand;
b) is able to swing back automatically into the retracted or travelling position when the vehicle returns to its normal (vertical) position, or
c) is able to swing back automatically into the retracted or travelling position following the first contact with the ground when the vehicle moves forward as a deliberate action of the rider
4. Where required, check an inhibitor is; Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval Manual Stands January 2019, 1/2 1
a) fitted
So……, the above rules DO NOT apply to the new 250W LPM category.
It goes on and on like this!
IN SUMMARY
The DfT have kindly informed us through the BAGB that they have
**"Updated the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval test to include a sub-category for "Twist and go" electric bikes, which require type approval before sale but which can otherwise be used like other 'normal' e-bikes.
Fewer modifications will now be needed for these machines to pass the test and gain type approval. The MSVA test costs £55 per individual vehicle.
It can be then used essentially as a normal bicycle (although the
rider must be aged 14 or over). But if such a bike has a motor which
can be operated without the rider pedalling, it has since Jan 2016
required type approval before sale (in accordance with EU regulation 168/2013) and is known as a Twist & Go (T&G) EAPC."
FOR MORE DETAIL
See
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules
http://tinyurl.com/ycl3zz4l
http://tinyurl.com/y94cpfo8
With thanks to Peter Elland BAGB
All the best, David
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
I believe that the rider also needs to have a moped type helmet???
classic33
Leg End Member
That first link is a bit out of date. Quadracycles were included in the rules change in 2015, they came into effect in 2016.
classic33
Leg End Member
You mean moped riders. As that is what the MVSA classifies them as should they pass.
bonzobanana
Guru
I'm pretty sure a lot of that is wrong, its a 250W rating but it is that rating or nominal power because many legal ebikes for example Bosch mid-drive ebikes will peak at about 700W or more for a short time. Also a throttle is completely legal when used with a pedelec bike its really just an alternative to having separate power levels. Many ebikes have lets say 3 or 5 power levels but the throttle just gives you variable power. It won't do anything if you aren't pedalling or you are going above 15.5mph. However previously a twist and go throttle arrangement was allowed but that was something like 2016 when it ended but its still legal to use those older ebikes on the road. The new law didn't apply to ebikes that had already been purchased. So there are many ebikes out there that are twist and go legally and newer ebikes can still have throttles without issues as long as they only operate while you are pedalling.
It seems very difficult for the police to prosecute twist and go type ebikes. Really I think they should just focus on the 15.5mph assisted speed. Any ebike they come across that will assist past 17 or 18mph (allowing for a small tolerance) should be classed as illegal but how they are meant to check the rest of it I don't know. The 250W motor rule is frankly ridiculous because the motor doesn't dictate the power the controller does. There is probably not a single ebike on the UK market with a 250W motor most if not all are just restricted by the controller. Direct drive hub motors sold as 250W often could take maybe 2000W but its the controller that only supplies 250W with perhaps a peak around 400W.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
There is no way a coper at the side of the road can measure the motor power - it would take a proper expert
It should fairly easy to check the speed cutoff - but does a copper really want to ride the bike up the road and check - and how do they measure teh speed - trusting the ebike speedo would never hold up in court!
Of course - if it is a pre-built ebike by a big company then it will have a plate on it saying the motor power (and other stuff) so it is easy to just show them that
I think that, if they ever bother, the main enforcement activity will be looking at the size of your motor (cue Kenneth Williams impressions) and generally checking speed v. effort
anyone with a 10 inch diameter hub motor doing 25 on the flat is kinda obvious
some old fat bald bloke sweating like crazy going up a slight incline doing 13 mph is not really worth stopping
so that's me OK!!!
It should fairly easy to check the speed cutoff - but does a copper really want to ride the bike up the road and check - and how do they measure teh speed - trusting the ebike speedo would never hold up in court!
Of course - if it is a pre-built ebike by a big company then it will have a plate on it saying the motor power (and other stuff) so it is easy to just show them that
I think that, if they ever bother, the main enforcement activity will be looking at the size of your motor (cue Kenneth Williams impressions) and generally checking speed v. effort
anyone with a 10 inch diameter hub motor doing 25 on the flat is kinda obvious
some old fat bald bloke sweating like crazy going up a slight incline doing 13 mph is not really worth stopping
so that's me OK!!!
David EBiker
Well-Known Member
Hi! I can confirm that riders of Type Approved eBikes with throttles do not have to wear a helmet.
All the best, David
classic33
Leg End Member
If they get reclassified as light mopeds, why are they excluded from the regulations. They're required by the same regulations to have insurance.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
THIS appears to say you do need a helmet
doesn't actually say it but I certainly read it as saying you do
not totally clear though
Is there something that is more definate?
What part makes you think that? I see nothing that suggests a helmet, in fact I see "If a bike meets the EAPC requirements it’s classed as a normal pedal bike", which very much means no helmet required.
classic33
Leg End Member
The MVSA reclassified it as a light moped. Requiring insurance, and licence to use.
ebikeerwidnes
Guru
- Location
- Z’ha’dum
This bit
Other types of ELectric bike
Any electric bike that does not meet the EAPC rules is classed as a motorcycle or moped and needs to be registered and taxed. You’ll need a driving licence to ride one and you must wear a crash helmet.
However, it also talks about 'type approval' and could be thought to imply that a 'type approved' ebike - in this case with a throttle - is then classified as an EPAC
I suppose the thing is I don;t know what the type approval can approve - for example can it approve a more powerful motor?
or a higher cut off speed?
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I must be missing something then - as I thought this whole thread was about a bike that now meets EAPC.
