Time for action

[magnatom]

Right. I am sick of hearing about cyclists being crushed by tipper lorries etc. It doesn't matter who's fault it is (sometimes the cyclist, sometimes the driver) the fact is that these deaths are completely avoidable. With a little more care and patience from both cyclist and driver these 'accidents' need not happen.

I think there are lots of drivers and cyclists who just don't understand the risks of left hooks (especially when there are barriers at the corners). So what can we do?

We could all moan about bad drivers/cyclists until we are blue in the face, but that wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. On here, we are (mainly) talking to the converted.

So what should we do then?

Start an open source campaign.

Since the last death, I have been thinking about the practicalities of making a video showing the dangers of the left hook. Video a cyclist next to the edge with a left turning HGV/tipper. Swap the cyclist for a polystyrene cut out and film what happens to it as the lorry turns the corner. With a lorry drivers help I am sure I could botch something together.

However, I also realised that we have a lot of talent on here, video editors, graphic designers, lorry drivers etc. So my idea is this: Why don't we start our own open source campaign to raise awareness of this issue? Together, I think we could put something pretty good together.

The media would like this sort of thing, cyclists working together to save lives (they would probably love the 'open source campaign' thing, though it would seem that is not entirely original). I could even use my media 'form' to raise awareness of it.

So is anyone willing to spare a bit of time for this? Do you think it is possible/ worth our while?

What do you think?

(I've placed this in commuting as it is relevant to this section)

 

[Crankarm]

Right. I am sick of hearing about cyclists being crushed by tipper lorries etc. It doesn't matter who's fault it is (sometimes the cyclist, sometimes the driver) the fact is that these deaths are completely avoidable. With a little more care and patience from both cyclist and driver these 'accidents' need not happen.

I think there are lots of drivers and cyclists who just don't understand the risks of left hooks (especially when there are barriers at the corners). So what can we do?

We could all moan about bad drivers/cyclists until we are blue in the face, but that wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. On here, we are (mainly) talking to the converted.

So what should we do then?

Start an open source campaign.

Since the last death, I have been thinking about the practicalities of making a video showing the dangers of the left hook. Video a cyclist next to the edge with a left turning HGV/tipper. Swap the cyclist for a polystyrene cut out and film what happens to it as the lorry turns the corner. With a lorry drivers help I am sure I could botch something together.

However, I also realised that we have a lot of talent on here, video editors, graphic designers, lorry drivers etc. So my idea is this: Why don't we start our own open source campaign to raise awareness of this issue? Together, I think we could put something pretty good together.

The media would like this sort of thing, cyclists working together to save lives (they would probably love the 'open source campaign' thing, though it would seem that is not entirely original). I could even use my media 'form' to raise awareness of it.

So is anyone willing to spare a bit of time for this? Do you think it is possible/ worth our while?

What do you think?

(I've placed this in commuting as it is relevant to this section)

Magnatom your idea is admirable and well intentioned. However owing to scale of the problem nothing short of a national awareness campaign would suffice in my mind which would involve national TV networks. These guys would unfortunately want big money to place adverts during prime time TV. The other alternative is making kids aware in schools although I don't know how many incidents of this type actually involve kids. I think most kids cycle on the pavements. Perhaps the cycling mags across the board could all be persuaded to run features at the same time with pics and diagrams and links to youtube videos such as the ones I anticipate you making. I think the major problem is tackling the lack of will or desire to tackle this outside the main stream cycling and lorry communities. Maybe TfL could be approached to help or fund a campaign as most incidents seem to occur in London. There must be money somewhere to fund a proper campaign as the Government is supposedly investing millions in cycling.

To fight a forest fire you need more than a watering can however capacious it is. Still I would like to offer support to your proposal. The longest journey still starts with a small step.

 

[Bigtwin]

So is anyone willing to spare a bit of time for this? Do you think it is possible/ worth our while?

What do you think?

Sadly not. Those "in authority" are well aware of this issue, as are the campaign groups etc.

The sad fact is that no one gives a stuff. By which I mean there is no appetite to spend any money to do anything about it. It's a problem of lack of will, not awareness. There are no votes in it.

Think of it this way. The Police etc don't even bother to enforce the ban on mobiles whilst driving, and that is a much more prevalent, dangerous, obvious and easy to control problem than the cycling issue.

In summary, laudable, but doomed to failure.

 

[Crankarm]

Sadly not. Those "in authority" are well aware of this issue, as are the campaign groups etc.

The sad fact is that no one gives a stuff. By which I mean there is no appetite to spend any money to do anything about it. It's a problem of lack of will, not awareness. There are no votes in it.

Think of it this way. The Police etc don't even bother to enforce the ban on mobiles whilst driving, and that is a much more prevalent, dangerous, obvious and easy to control problem than the cycling issue.

In summary, laudable, but doomed to failure.

Maybe so, but defeatism is not a reason for letting the current situation continue. So you wouldn't be offering any support or encouragement to Magnatom in his plan to try to bring awareness of this issue to all cyclists and other relevant road users?

 

[simon_brooke]

As far as I'm concerned there are two big problems with left hooks, which are actually caused by roads planners. Obviously the major problem with left hooks is training, both of cyclists and drivers - so your video is a good idea, but....

Left hand cycle lanes leading into advanced stop line boxes persuade inexperienced cyclists that going up the inside of a truck is the right thing to do. After all, if it wasn't safe it wouldn't be painted on the road, would it?

Left-hand cycle lanes leading up to ASL boxes should definitely be banned; if there is a feeder lane it should be to the RIGHT of the rightmost lane in which vehicles can normally turn left (cycle lanes in the door zone should also be banned).

But the other thing is rigid barriers on corners. So many cyclists are crushed between HGVs and a rigid barrier. That rigid barrier simply does not need to be there. I appreciate that on some city junctions the press of pedestrians on the pavement can sometimes be so great that you have to have some sort of barrier to prevent peds being pushed into the roadway, but surely those barriers could be designed to they fold inwards easily?

But yes, video is a great idea. To be fair there are some excellent videos already on Youtube - this one from Paris impressed me recently:

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAethD1Io_Y&eurl=http://hembrow.blogspot.com/&feature=player_embedded


But if you're serious and need help, I'd put some time in (I'm assuming you're planning to do it somewhere near Glasgow). We'd need to find a friendly HGV driver (with truck). We'd need a junction with railings on the corner, we'd need a quiet Sunday morning, and we'd need co-operation from the police and probably the local roads department. TBH I doubt either of those would be difficult to get.

(edited to add) Using this as a feeder for a petition to the petitions committe of parliament would be a good plan, too - to ask for (at minimum) public money to get the video on television and the removal of those feeder lanes!

 

[Bokonon]

Origamist started a thread pointing to a RoSPA video covering this issue.

 

[colinr]

Magnatom your idea is admirable and well intentioned. However owing to scale of the problem nothing short of a national awareness campaign would suffice in my mind which would involve national TV networks.

Social media and that - YouTube, Facebook, Forums, Twitter. Start small, build a buzz, get noticed.

Parts of the press love all this newfangled stuff, makes them look up to date and requires very little work to quote a bunch of other people.

 

[magnatom]

I completely understand the drop in the ocean issue, i.e. we couldn't make a difference. I disagree with this.

I remember when I started making my videos, folk told me no-one would care etc. Now I've had over 250,000 views of my videos and nearly 300 subscribers. (Most folk don't bother subscribing, so I am sure plenty more watch my videos) So people do care. As well as that, the media love stories of normal 'Joes' taking action for themselves.

Add to that the frghtening statistic of how many cyclists have been killed this year already and we have a story in the making. People power can make a difference. Of course if we could get the support of a celeb (Vicky for instance who I know has feeling on this subject) all the better, but that would only come (if at all) once we got the ball rolling.

So come on guys, less of the 'it'll never work' attitude. Of course it won't, if we don't try.

Simon, thanks for the offer! Yes there are a few practicalities that we need to sorted out. It doesn't need to be in Glasgow. There may be others who are better at filming etc. I don't care about 'owning' this, I just thought it was time to get off my backside and see if we could do something.

 

[Bigtwin]

Maybe so, but defeatism is not a reason for letting the current situation continue. So you wouldn't be offering any support or encouragement to Magnatom in his plan to try to bring awareness of this issue to all cyclists and other relevant road users?

No, but realism is. I wish him the best of luck, and of course hope I am wrong. But I have been active on similarish issues with motorcycling and young people's cycling training, and I know that the impact one can make is absolutely minimal. As pointed out above and on other threads, there is a wealth of material already out there, and this is covered in cycling proficiency as was, HGV training etc etc. At the end of the day, people's behaviour is very very hard to change, certainly by small measures - there will always be stupid people doing stupid things, and you just won't change that.

To make a real difference, one needs fundamental changes at local and central government level. There are already very well organised and funded bodies campainging very effectively there ("very" is a relative concept here of course). Sometimes less is more, perhaps better to fall in with one of those and use their resources. Other than that, any impact is going to be very small/local.

 

[magnatom]

Social media and that - YouTube, Facebook, Forums, Twitter. Start small, build a buzz, get noticed.

Parts of the press love all this newfangled stuff, makes them look up to date and requires very little work to quote a bunch of other people.

Exactly. I know there are videos covering this issue already, but as you say this type of video, made by cyclists, could create it's own buzz.

 

[scouserinlondon]

What's shocked me the most from the threads on LondonFGSS is the sheer number of HGV related fatalities that go un-reported.

I feel a great thing we could do is to expose the number of incidents which occur and identify accident black spots digitally and by aggregating the numbers create an impactful web presence which shows the scale of the problem.

I assume TFL makes this data available to the public for London, it shouldn't be too hard to represent it. I'm thinking of something along the lines of the met police crime map.

If we had this resource (perhaps hosted on this site or LCC) we could then append videos and individual's stories to that site to generate the human interested and prevention part of it.

 

[Crankarm]

I would be prepared to map all cycling fatalities on mapmyrun.com if a list could be drawn up of those that have occurred this year. There must be a large proportion of them mentioned here. One could also indicate whether car or HGV/bus fatal collision. Would need to know exactly where the collision took place though. Where would one get this info using official sources? Data Protection issues may well be sited to avoid divulging information. Perhaps something a journo at the Beeb could take on as there may be cost implications in getting this info but it s certainly in the public interest so they might consider it? Panorama even?

 

[hackbike 666]

Mobile phones don't help either.I had an argument with a black cab driver yesterday at London Bridge because the knob wasn't concentrating with me behind him then in front of him.Seems like they can do what they want out there.

It seems hard enough for people to hold any sort of concentration in this weather anyway.

 

[magnatom]

I think if something like this worked it would be great to expand it, but I think to kick things off we need focus. The interaction of large vehicles, cyclists at left turns seems to be the situation where most are killed and thus should be the focus of any campaign. Keep it simple.

So any other volunteers?

 

[Plax]

I'll volunteer. Not quite sure what I can do as I don't really make videos and there's not all that many cyclists here compared to the big cities but I can certainly do some kind of "campaigning" I suppose!