time to p*** off the motorists again

[DrSquirrel]

I haven't said anything to annoy motorists in a while (if ever ) so I thought I would have a go at putting forward my idea of improving road safety. It goes something like this. Most people are online or have access to computers so I propose that the perception test for drivers is posted online with every driver having to retake it every 12 months 3 attempts to get it right if you fail after 3. A mandatory full re test The purpose of this would be to remind drivers to be aware of their surroundings and stop them driving on automatic. (Hang on a minute while I get my flak gear)

I've done the perception tests, and they are utter utter shite.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

It is mind boggling that motorist still go on about road tax, and their lack of understanding. There is no such thing as road tax!

Technically, you're quite right. But it's used as a shorthand for "vehicle excise duty", which takes longer to say even though it is more accurate. It's not important.

 

[John the Monkey]

Technically, you're quite right. But it's used as a shorthand for "vehicle excise duty", which takes longer to say even though it is more accurate. It's not important.

Car tax? Vee Ee Dee?

 

[John the Monkey]

I think I do slightly romanticise the duelling swordplay that our roads can occasionally be. I'm a reformed courier (motorbike) so I am drawn to the two-stroke stink and the sound of shattering wing mirrors that London used to provide.

Eh, I dislike it. Luckily I like cycling more than I dislike it. I don't want to be a road warrior, and I don't think people should have to be to ride a bike. If I wanted to fight, I'd box again.

 

[techno]

I have to say I have read this thread and found it entertaining, I run a forum and wether you ride a pushbike, motorbike or drive a car you will get threads like this so its nothing new.
I have to say I would like to see no more forced legislation, regular retests seem to be a common proporsition however for a start people struggle to get a first test let alone the logistics for retests!
Then theres the problem of thnose that would fail, loss of jobs possibly and then theres the poor unfortunate disabled people. no probs hey lets leave them housebound.

People have gone on about how the tes should be harder, well the test is nothing more than a competancy test all the real learning is done after ouve passed, well it was for me as i regard myself as a better driver now than i was just after passing, yet if i took my test again i could infact fail on some minor point that is useless in everyday driving.

Someone suggested that before doing a test we should spend 6 months on a bike, hey why not go further do tiime on motorbikes, lorries buses am sure that wouldnt cause the accident stats to rise at all utter nonsense and anyway most people have served longer on bikes as upto the age of 16 a push bike is all you can ride, i also dont remember moaning about driving standards as a child hell how did we survive!
One thing I do agree with is that the hpt is pointless I passed mine after I had been driving for nearly 20 years and it really doesnt apply to actual road use imo!
As for the op, way to go why would you want to deliberatly piss off any road user, surely as a cyclist not actually knowing what a traffic light is or is used for probaly pisses off motorists already!

 

[Wankelschrauben]

I have to say I have read this thread and found it entertaining, I run a forum and wether you ride a pushbike, motorbike or drive a car you will get threads like this so its nothing new.
I have to say I would like to see no more forced legislation, regular retests seem to be a common proporsition however for a start people struggle to get a first test let alone the logistics for retests!
Then theres the problem of thnose that would fail, loss of jobs possibly and then theres the poor unfortunate disabled people. no probs hey lets leave them housebound.

People have gone on about how the tes should be harder, well the test is nothing more than a competancy test all the real learning is done after ouve passed, well it was for me as i regard myself as a better driver now than i was just after passing, yet if i took my test again i could infact fail on some minor point that is useless in everyday driving.

Someone suggested that before doing a test we should spend 6 months on a bike, hey why not go further do tiime on motorbikes, lorries buses am sure that wouldnt cause the accident stats to rise at all utter nonsense and anyway most people have served longer on bikes as upto the age of 16 a push bike is all you can ride, i also dont remember moaning about driving standards as a child hell how did we survive!
One thing I do agree with is that the hpt is pointless I passed mine after I had been driving for nearly 20 years and it really doesnt apply to actual road use imo!

I agree with what this guys says to this point.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I haven't said anything to annoy motorists in a while (if ever ) so I thought I would have a go at putting forward my idea of improving road safety. It goes something like this. Most people are online or have access to computers so I propose that the perception test for drivers is posted online with every driver having to retake it every 12 months 3 attempts to get it right if you fail after 3. A mandatory full re test The purpose of this would be to remind drivers to be aware of their surroundings and stop them driving on automatic. (Hang on a minute while I get my flak gear)

Single biggest problem I see is how to stop another from taking the test for you.

 

[John the Monkey]

I have to say I would like to see no more forced legislation

Agreed - I'd like to see the laws we actually have enforced before even more are enacted (although I reckon presumption of liability, along the lines of continental systems would make a massive difference to the experiences of pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists).

As for the op, way to go why would you want to deliberatly piss off any road user, surely as a cyclist not actually knowing what a traffic light is or is used for probaly pisses off motorists already!

I've no idea, although I also don't know why being asked to show competency to operate a car safely would "piss off" drivers. As for the red light jibe, Ho, ho. Give us the road tax one next time.

 

[DrSquirrel]

I have to say I have read this thread and found it entertaining, I run a forum and wether you ride a pushbike, motorbike or drive a car you will get threads like this so its nothing new.
I have to say I would like to see no more forced legislation, regular retests seem to be a common proporsition however for a start people struggle to get a first test let alone the logistics for retests!
Then theres the problem of thnose that would fail, loss of jobs possibly and then theres the poor unfortunate disabled people. no probs hey lets leave them housebound.

So you are saying that someone that is uncapable of driving (failing a test) should still be allowed to just because they are disabled?

And if someone struggles to pass first time, this sounds like a good reason for a retest every so often.

As you say, the test is not really related to real world driving... so surely retests should be much easier for "experienced" drivers. Not that I like this idea of "real world driving" anyway, as peoples view on this is more to do with how to push the limit, gamble with lights and pushing your way through traffic wherever possible.

 

[Bicycle]

What absolute tosh!

As a society we have become in thrall to the motor vehicle and, it would appear, willing to excuse any behaviour by motorists.

Many of the things that have been suggested, such a mandatory regular retesting, which you seem to think will bring about meltdown and hardship are already in use in other jurisdictions - and hasn't brought about the apocalypse there.

Driving is a privilege - not a right - and it's about time we started really reinforcing this.

It may be a little harsh accusing another contributor of writing absolute tosh.

I'm not sure that we are in thrall to motor vehicles. They are central to the way we live now, but so are telephony, the Water Main and the National Grid. I think I'd find it hard to live as I do without my saucepans, collender, wooden spoon and chopping board too. That doesn't mean I'm in thrall to them.

I've lived without mains power, piped water and cars at different times and it's perfectly possible but not always convenient or easy. There's a difference between being in thrall to something and exploiting its utility.

Most of what I eat and much of what I own has been delivered at some stage in a car, van or lorry. Deliveries to my LBS are by van; those from Wiggle to my door, likewise.

I'm not sure, either, that we're willing as a society to excuse any behaviour by motorists. Some people will always get away with outrageous or criminal acts. I wonder if there is anywhere in the world where they don't. But in general, I think our roads are well policed.

As things stand, drivers are tested and issued with a license that can be withdrawn from them for a number of reasons. Motor vehicles are tested annually for roadworthiness. 3P insurance is mandatory. VED must be paid and proof of payment displayed. Drivers suspected of having excess alcohol in their system can be stopped and tested. All of that is as it should be.

Cyclists, on the other hand, just go out and buy a bicycle.

Motorists and cyclists are all road users. I'm not at all in favour of testing cyclists, but I do wonder why we'd advocate regular re-testing of one set of road users when another is never tested.

I realise there's the point about the comparison between a series of light metal tubes and a 70-mph metal box weighing over a tonnne (which has its merits as an argument) but I'm really not convinced that regular re-tests would make things any better.

Just a thought.

 

[element]

You really are a bit of half-wit, aren't you?

The £5.2 billion is the cost to the whole economy - not just the NHS. The costs to the NHS of smoking related diseases is about half of that total - and that's for the whole population, not just the smokers.

The interesting research beginning to emerge, now that we are better able to pinpoint the actual causes of particular episodes of ill-health more accureately, is that much of the disease which has been blamed on smoking may actually be as a result of vehicle emissions....


...created by motorists.

You are an imbecile, the title of the article is 'smoking costs the NHS more than 5 billion'. Aside from that the point I was making was more about the manipulation of the statistics by parties who clearly had an agenda. You really are a bit slow. I would suggest that being completely out of your depth in this debate, you go and sit down for a bit

 

[John the Monkey]

I'm not sure, either, that we're willing as a society to excuse any behaviour by motorists. Some people will always get away with outrageous or criminal acts. I wonder if there is anywhere in the world where they don't. But in general, I think our roads are well policed.

"Official figures obtained by The Independent on Sunday show that more than 10,000 motorists have totted up at least 12 points for offences including drink-driving, speeding, and failing to produce a specimen. One Bradford motorist is still on the road even though he or she has collected 32 points."

...

The Driver Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) revealed that on 6 August, 10,072 drivers in Great Britain had 12 or more current penalty points, but were still entitled to drive. The figures, obtained under freedom of information legislation, show that more than 120 motorists had 20 or more points, seven have 30 or more and one, in Bradford, has 32.

http://www.driving.o...-points-or-more (widely reported elsewhere too).

Or talk to someone about "road rage", and then similar behaviour in a different social context (down the pub, say). Do they react in the same way to both?

 

[ClichéGuevara]

For my work,to comply with their insurance I need to take periodic re-tests in order to drive company vehicles, (laughable as the insurance excess is equal to the value of the vehicle, but that's another issue).

I have no problem at all with this as it keeps me on my toes and more up to date with regulations than I might otherwise be. Incidentally, it gets quite involved in speed awareness and mobile phone use, but doesn't cover anything specific about cyclists.

Some people fail the test, but can still use their own vehicle for work purposes, which I'm not sure of the liability consequences of. Others find reasons not to use company vehicles to avoid the test. Listening to their comments about driving (what's wrong with sitting in the middle lane?) I think they're right to be nervous.

A consequence of this test is that the overall insurance premium is very low, accidents and motoring offences are rarities, driving standards are maintained, and fuel economy and vehicle life greatly increased by more efficient driving. All in all it makes it cost effective for my employrer and I'd certainly closely consider a similar option if it were available to me as a private individual.

 

[Jezston]

You are an imbecile, the title of the article is 'smoking costs the NHS more than 5 billion'. Aside from that the point I was making was more about the manipulation of the statistics by parties who clearly had an agenda. You really are a bit slow. I would suggest that being completely out of your depth in this debate, you go and sit down for a bit

Dude, just accept you were wrong about the whole 'road tax' bollocks and we can all move on.

You are just digging yourself into a hole.

In other news, I live in Nottingham and pay council tax, which pays for the roads in Nottingham. Should people from other cities, in particular Derby, not be allowed to use our roads? Also students who don't pay council tax?

 

[element]

However you want to paint it the money for the lovely smooth roads is only there because people who drive pay a lot in VED and fuel tax. DO you really think without that money we would have such a well developed road system ? Motorists are a massive source of revenue for the government and cyclists, especially those left wing hippie types with no grasp of reality, who don't own a car should be charged for being on the roads.
I personally have no respect for a grown man who does not have a car or motorbike unless they have a medical problem or they live in London or similar city. Those delusional hippies who cycle out of principal and carry that anti car agenda should be sent to live in the woods so they can wipe their arse with leaves and be a proper hippie.