time to p*** off the motorists again

[Rhythm Thief]

The problem is not that people are unaware of hazards on the road or cyclists, it's just that more and more people think that they and they alone are the centre of the universe, and consequently don't even begin to take other road users into account when they're trying to get somewhere. You won't change that by making them sit a test every five years. The first step would be perhaps to try and educate people to make them realise that there is actually no such thing as a right to have everything exactly how they want it at all times ...

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Um no I think you y are wrong seeing as Asphault is the name given to the binding agent used to secure the aggregate in Asphault concrete which is one of many things that can be used to build roads including Tarmac.

You also have very bad taste on cars.

No, I think I'm right. And you appear to know **** all about cars. Or cycling.

What else do you know **** all about?

 

[Parrot of Doom]

Valid points

You missed one. Massive expansion of traffic police numbers, officers tasked only to road-related work, and not general policing.

 

[adds21]

The only real answers to addressing poor driving are:

1. Bring back an understanding that driving is a privilege - not a right.
2. Introduce the presumption of liability that is common on the continent.
3. Make it harder to get a license. The initial test should be much more difficult to pass and should include a medical assesment. All drivers should be required to have cycled for at least six months before being able to apply for a license.
4. Make it easier to lose your license. At the moment, the reality is that it is very difficult to take someone's license away. This is particularly so if the person becomes medically unfit to drive.
5. If you get caught drink driving it should be an automatic 5 year ban - no exceptions. Get caught a second time then you get a life ban.
6. Anyone driving without a license should have the car confiscated and crushed. Heavy sentences, including inprisonment, should be brought in for those caught driving whilst banned.
7. Abolish the offence of careless driving. Any 'careless' driving is actually dangerous - therefore the minimum charge should be dangerous driving. Abolish 'causing death by careless/dangerous driving' - anyone who kills someone whilst driving should face manslaughter charges.
8. Mandatory re-testing every five years.
9. Automatic one year loss of license for totting up 12 points (no exceptions) - and a mandatory re-test (irrespective of how recently you passed your last test/re-test). Tot up another 12 points and you should automatically lose your license for 5 years. Get a third tot up and you lose your license for life.

Harsh, but I find myself agreeing with most.

 

[rowan 46]

The only real answers to addressing poor driving are:

1. Bring back an understanding that driving is a privilege - not a right.
2. Introduce the presumption of liability that is common on the continent.
3. Make it harder to get a license. The initial test should be much more difficult to pass and should include a medical assesment. All drivers should be required to have cycled for at least six months before being able to apply for a license.
4. Make it easier to lose your license. At the moment, the reality is that it is very difficult to take someone's license away. This is particularly so if the person becomes medically unfit to drive.
5. If you get caught drink driving it should be an automatic 5 year ban - no exceptions. Get caught a second time then you get a life ban.
6. Anyone driving without a license should have the car confiscated and crushed. Heavy sentences, including inprisonment, should be brought in for those caught driving whilst banned.
7. Abolish the offence of careless driving. Any 'careless' driving is actually dangerous - therefore the minimum charge should be dangerous driving. Abolish 'causing death by careless/dangerous driving' - anyone who kills someone whilst driving should face manslaughter charges.
8. Mandatory re-testing every five years.
9. Automatic one year loss of license for totting up 12 points (no exceptions) - and a mandatory re-test (irrespective of how recently you passed your last test/re-test). Tot up another 12 points and you should automatically lose your license for 5 years. Get a third tot up and you lose your license for life.

I am not sure I agree with you although for the the life of me I can't think why as it seems eminently sensible. I think my problem is that that is too draconian. Many people once they have passed a test change their lives to suit. they get jobs that rely on them to drive etc. I don't like the idea of people being put out of work. However I do think some way of reminding drivers how dangerous their vehicles are if they don't pay attention would be a good idea. As a care worker i regularly have to do training and refreshers i usually come back refocussed on my job I was putting out this idea to see if the same same principle could be applied.

 

[Davidc]

Make skate boarders wear number plates and pay road tax !!!!

And PED for walking?

 

[Dan B]

Anyone driving without a license should have the car confiscated and crushed.

Just as a matter of interest, would you let the car occupants get out first?

 

[snorri]

[/size]Just as a matter of interest, would you let the car occupants get out first?

There's a soft streak in you Dan B.

 

[hennbell]

It is mind boggling that motorist still go on about road tax, and their lack of understanding. There is no such thing as road tax!

 

[Bicycle]

The only real answers to addressing poor driving are:

1. Bring back an understanding that driving is a privilege - not a right.
2. Introduce the presumption of liability that is common on the continent.
3. Make it harder to get a license. The initial test should be much more difficult to pass and should include a medical assesment. All drivers should be required to have cycled for at least six months before being able to apply for a license.
4. Make it easier to lose your license. At the moment, the reality is that it is very difficult to take someone's license away. This is particularly so if the person becomes medically unfit to drive.
5. If you get caught drink driving it should be an automatic 5 year ban - no exceptions. Get caught a second time then you get a life ban.
6. Anyone driving without a license should have the car confiscated and crushed. Heavy sentences, including inprisonment, should be brought in for those caught driving whilst banned.
7. Abolish the offence of careless driving. Any 'careless' driving is actually dangerous - therefore the minimum charge should be dangerous driving. Abolish 'causing death by careless/dangerous driving' - anyone who kills someone whilst driving should face manslaughter charges.
8. Mandatory re-testing every five years.
9. Automatic one year loss of license for totting up 12 points (no exceptions) - and a mandatory re-test (irrespective of how recently you passed your last test/re-test). Tot up another 12 points and you should automatically lose your license for 5 years. Get a third tot up and you lose your license for life.

I read the above with interest but I find some of it slightly Draconian. There is certainly poor driving, but I'm not convinced that the proposed regime is the answer. Certainly not 'the only real answer'. Drink drivers and banned drivers often assume they won't get caught.

I quite like the way things are going at the moment. There have been recent changes. It's not perfect but the rudder has been applied and the ship is turning in its own good time.

I went on a 'Speed Awareness Course' a few weeks ago rather than pay a fine and take points. It was only an option for drivers who were within X mph of the limit, but it was still (to my mind) better than slapping points on someone and leaving them poorer but no wiser.

I learned something and I am now slightly more responsible on the roads. Slightly....

The guy who led the workshop said they also do ones for dangerous drivers, drink drivers folk who'd nodded off when driving and so on (not as an alternative to punishment but in addition to).

This seems sensible and progressive to me.

As someone who was banned whilst still too young to drive, I can assure you that it is not difficult to lose a license. I deserved it 112%, but it really was as easy as falling off a log.

 

[CopperCyclist]

The hazard perception test is rubbish. A mate once bought a version to test himself. I tried it and only just passed. It said I wasn't spotting hazards.

Actually I was. I was just spotting them before the test thought it was appropriate - i.e. the van in front of you is a hazard to be aware of, it doesn't only a hazard the moment it crosses the white line. Drive the way an advanced driving course or a police course tell you, and the hazard test thinks you're rubbish!

 

[John the Monkey]

I am not pleased about the road-death figures, but I am staggered that they are not higher. That was my point. I think the current system works well. That doesn't mean I am pleased when casualties occur.

Pleased might be overstating - having had time to retrieve the actual quote;

"We need to get the message across that 3,200 deaths a year is tragic but not excessive. With 30 million vehicles on the roads it’s nothing short of a bloody miracle.”

It's excessive for the poor buggers in that 3,200. Whilst some collisions are unavoidable, both my serious "offs" have been the result of appalling misjudgement, and impatience by drivers. I suspect that certainty of punishment might have made them decide not to try to enter a roundabout through me, or overtake me where there wasn't room.

Whilst anecdote is not data, I see an increasing amount of impatience, casual law breaking, and wilful self distraction by drivers in Manchester. I half joke that it's only a matter of time before I see someone building a ship in a bottle at the wheel.

I think there's also the issue of our road culture, which I find it hard to glory in. Whilst cycling is, statistically, safe, it's pretty bloody unpleasant, especially compared to riding in the parts of France and Belgium that I've had the good fortune to visit.

I do glory in the barminess of such mass, force and velocity being in the hands of mere human beings, but I cycle in that stuff too. So do my wife and children.

I'm not sure I agree either about cars bullying other road users off the roads. I see more cyclists now than I did 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

Your family is, I suspect, in the minority, sadly - as for more cyclists, I think it's happening despite the culture of the roads & perception of danger. If that latter changed, (and I don't care how that happens) I suspect there'd be a veritable explosion of cycling in the UK.

 

[Bicycle]

Pleased might be overstating - having had time to retrieve the actual quote;

"We need to get the message across that 3,200 deaths a year is tragic but not excessive. With 30 million vehicles on the roads it’s nothing short of a bloody miracle.”

Whilst anecdote is not data, I see an increasing amount of impatience, casual law breaking, and wilful self distraction by drivers in Manchester. I half joke that it's only a matter of time before I see someone building a ship in a bottle at the wheel.

I think there's also the issue of our road culture, which I find it hard to glory in. Whilst cycling is, statistically, safe, it's pretty bloody unpleasant, especially compared to riding in the parts of France and Belgium that I've had the good fortune to visit.


Your family is, I suspect, in the minority, sadly - as for more cyclists, I think it's happening despite the culture of the roads & perception of danger. If that latter changed, (and I don't care how that happens) I suspect there'd be a veritable explosion of cycling in the UK.

Grrrrr... I reluctantly find myself agreeing with much of what you say. I can't bear agreeing with people.

I think I do slightly romanticise the duelling swordplay that our roads can occasionally be. I'm a reformed courier (motorbike) so I am drawn to the two-stroke stink and the sound of shattering wing mirrors that London used to provide.

I entirely take your point about wilful self-distraction. I might even start using the phrase myself.

However, I could imagine myself typing the second sentence of your Clarkson quote, if not the first. The difference is that we are typing from different positions at the table. In fact, I think we might not even be typing from the same restaurant.

 

[gaz]

i suspect element is trollin
[media]

]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bMLrA_0O5I[/media]

 

[User16625]

I haven't said anything to annoy motorists in a while (if ever ) so I thought I would have a go at putting forward my idea of improving road safety. It goes something like this. Most people are online or have access to computers so I propose that the perception test for drivers is posted online with every driver having to retake it every 12 months 3 attempts to get it right if you fail after 3. A mandatory full re test The purpose of this would be to remind drivers to be aware of their surroundings and stop them driving on automatic. (Hang on a minute while I get my flak gear)

I see one serious flaw in that idea. What if you disconnect before completing the test, does it count as a fail? If so that would be unfair. If not, people would exploit this if they thought they werent doing well when they near the end of the test. Any such test would need to be carried out in a test centre for this reason. Also motorists pay through the nose as it is, any extra cost isnt going to go down well.