Tipper truck kills 4 in Bath

[subaqua]

https://www.gov.uk/become-lorry-bus-driver/driving-licence-requirements

younger in the armed forces I believe

 

[pplpilot]

My daughter is approaching 4 , i cannot even begin to imagine the pain and grief that little girls parents are going through. I gave extra hugs tonight. How does anyone even begin to get on with life after something like this?

 

[summerdays]

Latest news on the driver:

The driver of a tipper truck that crashed in Bath, killing a child and three adults, passed his HGV test several days earlier, it has emerged.

I go back to my original thought, I think they should gradually build up experience. This sounds as though he had very little experience and driving in an area that needed that back up knowledge. Surely it would make sense to gradually introduce people to larger trucks on easier runs than throwing them in at the deep end.

 

[Brandane]

Surely it would make sense to gradually introduce people to larger trucks on easier runs than throwing them in at the deep end.

That would indeed make sense in an ideal world, but in reality things are much different......
I passed my class 2 HGV test about 10 years ago, aged 42 and having been pensioned out of the Police on health grounds. I had to jump through more hoops than most to get my licence, because my medical condition is heart related.
I found it very hard to get a driving job with zero HGV experience. The only people who might give newly qualified drivers a job are either cowboys who no-one else will drive for, or agencies.
I went down the agency route! Problem with that is, they just feed you to a client who has paid good money for your services and they are not interested in whether you have experience or not. They just want the job done, end of story.

I still remember my first class 2 shift as the steepest learning curve, EVER! I went to the clients premises, they just handed me the keys of a fully loaded lorry of a type I had never driven; gave me my paperwork and sent me on my way to do multi drop around Ayrshire. Jeez, what a sweaty day!

After about 6 weeks of agency work I got lucky with a full time job with an air freight company. Passed my class 1 (artic) licence a few months later, August 2005. Worked with them until redundancy came along about 4 years ago. Via a couple of other jobs, I am now back doing agency work! Basically because I no longer have the need or inclination to work full time. Sorry for the waffling, it was just to make the point that new drivers do tend to get thrown in at the deep end!

 

[glenn forger]

The lorry had been sprayed a different colour. The proper authorities hadn't been informed of this. It was on a road it should not have been on because of width restrictions, and the driver had passed his test four day's previous.

 

[Levo-Lon]

What he said ^^^

 

[summerdays]

That would indeed make sense in an ideal world, but in reality things are much different......
I passed my class 2 HGV test about 10 years ago, aged 42 and having been pensioned out of the Police on health grounds. I had to jump through more hoops than most to get my licence, because my medical condition is heart related.
I found it very hard to get a driving job with zero HGV experience. The only people who might give newly qualified drivers a job are either cowboys who no-one else will drive for, or agencies.
I went down the agency route! Problem with that is, they just feed you to a client who has paid good money for your services and they are not interested in whether you have experience or not. They just want the job done, end of story.

I still remember my first class 2 shift as the steepest learning curve, EVER! I went to the clients premises, they just handed me the keys of a fully loaded lorry of a type I had never driven; gave me my paperwork and sent me on my way to do multi drop around Ayrshire. Jeez, what a sweaty day!

After about 6 weeks of agency work I got lucky with a full time job with an air freight company. Passed my class 1 (artic) licence a few months later, August 2005. Worked with them until redundancy came along about 4 years ago. Via a couple of other jobs, I am now back doing agency work! Basically because I no longer have the need or inclination to work full time. Sorry for the waffling, it was just to make the point that new drivers do tend to get thrown in at the deep end!

Thanks that's a useful insight into that world. I can see how it is difficult to avoid getting thrown in at the deep end, but that's where I think the system is wrong.

With your experience of the test and the learning leading up to it, do you think he was suitably experienced for that job/load? Perhaps his employers should also be taking some of the blame.

 

[Brandane]

Thanks that's a useful insight into that world. I can see how it is difficult to avoid getting thrown in at the deep end, but that's where I think the system is wrong.

With your experience of the test and the learning leading up to it, do you think he was suitably experienced for that job/load? Perhaps his employers should also be taking some of the blame.

I think the actual driving test is in itself only the beginning, just as it is with cars.
You sit your HGV class 2 test in a lorry which you have been driving for the previous 5 days, and in my case that was the only lorry I had ever sat in, never mind driven!
I passed my test in an empty lorry, which drives totally different to one fully loaded (these days it has changed and I believe for test purposes lorries have to carry a certain weight in the load area).
When I started working on lorries it was, as I say, a steep learning curve. I didn't have a clue about anything. There are so many different types of gearboxes for starters, usually involving a low ratio and high ratio, with different types using different methods for changing between the two.
As far as loading/unloading procedures go, the test only scratches the surface of that, as in you are told the load has to be secure and evenly distributed. In practice, you are trying to juggle with loading odd shaped stuff at several different places, and trying to arrange it so that it is easy to unload at several different destinations. It can be a logistical nightmare at times; usually done in the pissing rain for about £8 per hour!
Different types of load require different specialist handling, and training should be given by the haulage companies to ensure the safety of the load, the lorry, the driver, and the public. For example air freight lorries have rollers on the trailer floor so that aircraft pallets can roll on/roll off. You don't want that happening when it's not intended, believe me. Yet, it does...

As far as the driver involved in this sad incident is concerned, it is hard to ignore the fact he is inexperienced, and this may or may not have contributed to the accident. Wouldn't like to hang the guy just yet though, until more is known. He might have been asked to do something he had no experience of, in a vehicle he was unfamiliar with. In that case the vehicle operator might have questions to answer. In my limited experience, they will probably do their very best to cover their own arses and lay the blame squarely with the driver. That's how it works .

 

[glenn forger]

"A 19-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and manslaughter by gross negligence.

"A 28-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of causing manslaughter by gross negligence.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...lled-in-bath-tipper-truck-crash-10050767.html

 

[Mugshot]

I went down the agency route! Problem with that is, they just feed you to a client who has paid good money for your services and they are not interested in whether you have experience or not. They just want the job done, end of story.

I worked for agencies for a couple of years in my very early twenties. I turned up at one job and told the guy in the office that I had been sent by the agency, he threw me a set of keys to the tractor unit and told me to hitch up to the trailer round the back then pop back in to get the job sheet so I could get on my way. I handed them back and explained that I was there to help with some furniture removals and hadn't even passed my car driving test.

 

[Brandane]

[QUOTE 3544335, member: 9609"]did you get any training regarding descending big hills when fully loaded? It is a hugely important thing and as far as I know it is not part of the test or even the training. I learnt from other drivers and had that reinforced by experiencing a touch of brake fade, thankfully only in places where it never mattered and I was soon able to come to a stop, but it is a very scary thing.[/QUOTE]
My experience was exactly the same. No training at all in that regard, so the first time I drove an old MAN 18 tonner I had to ask what the silver button on the floor on the driver's side was. Turned out to be the exhaust brake.

 

[summerdays]

T

My experience was exactly the same. No training at all in that regard, so the first time I drove an old MAN 18 tonner I had to ask what the silver button on the floor on the driver's side was. Turned out to be the exhaust brake.

so what is an exhaust brake?

 

[w00hoo_kent]

OK, so the exhaust brake is the reason 'No Engine Braking' signs exist. Have a friend who drives mid distance in the States, his town has a long hill in to it with 'no engine braking' signs for the hours of darkness.

There is something wrong in a system that lets people just pass a test and go out on the public roads in vehicles that have so much potential to do harm. My wife became a Registrar last year, at every stage of her job she has training, testing and then for the next 4-5 sessions a mentor sits with her to make sure she is doing things (notices of marriage, registering marriage, etc.) correctly. At no point would inability or a misunderstanding on her part kill anyone. But you can have a test only ever having driven one type of lorry and then be sent out on to the public highway to earn a living at the very bottom of the rung with no monitoring at all. Definitely some priorities are screwed here.

 

[Brandane]

OK, so the exhaust brake is the reason 'No Engine Braking' signs exist.

Are you sure it doesn't say USE engine braking, with it being on a long hill?

 

[Brandane]

[QUOTE 3544801, member: 9609"]Did it have a Slap Box ?[/QUOTE]
No it was just a straight 6 speed box, but I have driven Mercs with a slap through; horrible things!