Tour de France 2015 - may contain nuts and SPOILERS

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suzeworld

Veteran
Location
helsby
You need a sprinters stage at the end otherwise you would have half the riders abandoning-those riders who are sprinters or pure sprint teams.

This is always on the cards anyway, remember Cipollini never went to Paris! I think it might even have been our very oww Cav who broke this tradition of being the top sprinter and only doing the first week!
On a related matter I saw Cav wondering what point there is for pure sprinters doing the tour if they have so few "sprint" stages in the race overall...
tbh it made for a brilliant contest from my point of view, despite less pure sprint finishes the other stages were more exciting than usual this year.
 

robertob

Well-Known Member
Location
Dublin
Have to say I thoroughly enjoyed this years Tour. It's been really exciting. Every day something interesting happened.

The Germans did really well. Greipel was outstanding, but Geschke was the highlight. Loved his emotions afterwards in the interview:



Shame it's all over.... was really flying by. After all, the man with the strongest team has won. But was he actually the strongest rider? Would Froome have won in the Movistar team? Probably. He's so composed and smart, he knows what his body can do, he makes the right decisions, even when isolated. I was probably most impressed with him at stage 19 to Les Sybelles. It was a tough day for him, he was alone, but he lost only half a minute to Quintana, what was a calculated effort from him up the hill, managing the time well. He didn't kill himself only to get back to Quintana or save some 10s, knowing the next day would be even more important. Others would have lost their head in panic and would have gone completely into the red.

I think Froome is a really likeable champion. I tried to find something negative to say, but I can't. He is so likeable. And it seems this perception is shared among his team mates, judging by what the lads say about him as a leader - but actions are most telling. They were digging in for him. On the Alpe D'Huez day it was most impressive.

For next year I'd say Froome must be odds-on to win again. Movistar needs a stronger team to support Quintana otherwise he's always likely to fall short. Sure he'll improve and have learned plenty, but can't do it on his own. We have seen how a strong team can make all the difference. Not to forget this years tour profile probably suited Quintana a lot with all the climbing. Nonetheless I like the small Colombian. He was riding smart too and came as close as it gets. Don't share some experts opinion that he should have attacked more often or early. It's not that easy, is it? If he would have done that it's unlikely he would have broken Froome but only would have worn him out and wouldn't have been able to put in such a strong attack as he did up the Alpe.

Anyway, roll in July 2016!
 

w00hoo_kent

One of the 64K
I'm with the pundits view that the high pace kept in the peloton on most days was specifically done to make attacking earlier too difficult to pull off. We really enjoyed it and am now waiting for the Vuelta as the next stop gap between now and next July.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Movistar needs a stronger team to support Quintana otherwise he's always likely to fall short.
I felt the team was strong enough but the tactics weren't suitable to defeat the Skyroller tactic. If he wants to win next year, Quintana's probably going to need time-trialling ability too, but we won't know until the route announcement. Next year will be more interesting if Contador and Nibali are at their past strength for the full tour.

Roll on the Vuelta - do we have a thread for that yet?
 

Hont

Guru
Location
Bromsgrove
If the top GC guys were that close, to literally a few seconds then they would fight for it, but my point is they are not going to get big enough time diffs on a sprint stage to catch up a gap of over a minute, which is what we have this year.

I remember Raimondas Rumsas trying to take a minute out of Joseba Beloki (for second place) by getting into a break on the Champs Elysees in 2002. Sure enough Beloki stuck his entire team on the front and dragged the break back.

I remember it because David Millar was in the break and he reported telling Rumsas to f**k off in as many languages as he could.
 

HF2300

Insanity Prawn Boy
After all, the man with the strongest team has won. But was he actually the strongest rider? Would Froome have won in the Movistar team? Probably. He's so composed and smart, he knows what his body can do, he makes the right decisions, even when isolated. I was probably most impressed with him at stage 19 to Les Sybelles. It was a tough day for him, he was alone, but he lost only half a minute to Quintana, what was a calculated effort from him up the hill, managing the time well. He didn't kill himself only to get back to Quintana or save some 10s, knowing the next day would be even more important. Others would have lost their head in panic and would have gone completely into the red.

I think this is a really important point. You see people like Ross Tucker saying there were plenty of better, quicker riders in South Africa, how did Froome get anywhere. Yet speed is only a fraction of what makes a champion; determination, mental strength and emotional intelligence play a large part, as does simply wanting it enough.

Having said that, would he have won in Movistar? I'm not so sure. To be able to do what he did takes - and took - a strong team that isn't internally divided, that you know are there working for you; and while a lot of the mental strength is Froome's, I'll bet Sky have played a hand in developing it. That's academic though - whatever the outcome, I think he'd have had a good go.

What will be interesting is his attitude to next year. Someone commented earlier that Wiggins will never win another tour, but I don't think Wiggins ever wanted to. For him, it was been there, done that, time for a different target; at least after he'd settled down from his post-tour wobbly. Is Froome a guy with multiple aims, or are 3, 5, 6 Tour wins his thing? Will he stop wanting it enough the third time round? Will he back G for it?

Movistar needs a stronger team to support Quintana otherwise he's always likely to fall short. Sure he'll improve and have learned plenty, but can't do it on his own. We have seen how a strong team can make all the difference. Not to forget this years tour profile probably suited Quintana a lot with all the climbing. Nonetheless I like the small Colombian. He was riding smart too and came as close as it gets. Don't share some experts opinion that he should have attacked more often or early. It's not that easy, is it? If he would have done that it's unlikely he would have broken Froome but only would have worn him out and wouldn't have been able to put in such a strong attack as he did up the Alpe.

I think Movistar suffered because they didn't have the strength in depth Sky did, they had multiple aims and because Valverde was looking after Valverde in the early stages. It's easy to say Quintana should have attacked earlier, and easy to say he shouldn't have; I think it's difficult to know what the outcome would have been. We saw Sky blown apart by early attacks at times, and we saw them strong and untroubled. Had he attacked earlier, he might have blown and been unable to attack on the Alpe - but at the end of the day, top two GC was fixed from stage 14 and La Toussuire and the Alpe made no difference.

I'd really like to know what was going on in Movistar, what the decisions were. They certainly looked cautious and defensive. Was it a tactical decision based on incorrect assumptions, Quintana's or the team's limitations? Did he / they have the strength but just got the tactics wrong? On one stage - I forget which - he said he'd given all he had, I think; did he simply not have the strength? Interesting, but just speculation at the end of the day; we can't know and probably never will, even when the biographies come out!

Something that might bode well for next year is the competition that's coming through. The Yates' are developing quickly, G is looking increasingly like a GC contender (though unless things change I guess he'll be subservient to Froome again); Contador will be riding his last tour; Nibali might be on form; the French are developing some serious competitors; even Porte and TvG might be there or thereabouts. OK, we'll have the usual disappointments, but it still feels like something to look forward to, with ASO leaning towards more varied and challenging parcours.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
He considers it a 'level playing field' because many of the amateurs are doped too! :whistle::laugh:
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Is Froome a guy with multiple aims, or are 3, 5, 6 Tour wins his thing? Will he stop wanting it enough the third time round? Will he back G for it?
He said after 2013 he wanted 4 or 5 - example without giving numbers http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...ht-for-multiple-Tour-de-France-victories.aspx - and he said similar again a few days ago - http://www.iol.co.za/sport/cycling/froome-targets-multiple-tour-wins-1.1890013

Will he stop wanting it or back G? Only time will tell...
 

HF2300

Insanity Prawn Boy
I hadn't seen that, but I had that impression. I suppose if he's that way inclined 5 or 6 would be obvious, to equal or better Merckx, Hinault, Indurain or (edit) Anquetil (who I inexplicably forgot)
 
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suzeworld

Veteran
Location
helsby
He's not going to win any more, Quintana will get 2 of the next three and either a Yates twin or Aru will get the other.

Yay --- I soooo want this to be true ... I adore Quintana .. possibly even more than before now I see how TINY he is!

I think he lost this year in that stage in first week where Sky played their experitise / savvy abut the location and the weather and Movistar didnt seem aware of the hazards.
so Quintana was stuck playing catch up for quite silly reasons, really, well silly and maybe Valverde related too ....
 
Location
Spain
Yay --- I soooo want this to be true ... I adore Quintana .. possibly even more than before now I see how TINY he is!

I think he lost this year in that stage in first week where Sky played their experitise / savvy abut the location and the weather and Movistar didnt seem aware of the hazards.
so Quintana was stuck playing catch up for quite silly reasons, really, well silly and maybe Valverde related too ....
He was unlucky and a little bit naieve on that stage maybe but the rest of the race i thought he was pretty much faultless, take away the time he lost on that stage and the team time trial and he won it. I claimed a moral victory for him in this house. My wife is acually getting quite jealous about my love for him. Would you like to adopt him with me and we'll live in a place with a big garden and he can just ride his bike around it all day long. Occasionally i shall rock him in my arms too.
 
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