Touring...or 'bikepacking'?

[lane]

So it could be a LENGTH thing?

(Length OF TIME, obvs)

I don't think so. Ultra endurance races would, I think, be viewed more bike packing than touring but is long (obviously). I think a lot of bike packing is short because people fit it in around busy lives, but doesn't have to be defined in that way.

Edit - great thread btw

 

[lane]

Another term is a micro adventure, apparently that’s another trendy term that I’m too old to use

Think that's what I would have called a weekend away.

 

[TheDoctor]

I've toured with al sorts of set-ups. A rucksack bungied onto a rack on my first bike, a saddlebag on my Carbon Uberbike, a T-Bag on my Brompton, or a single pannier on my singlespeed. If what you want to do works for you, then it's right.
Unless it's riding from Carlisle to Newcastle on a Brompton, which I would not recommend. I was so tired I couldn't finish the second pint. Or the chocolate fudge cake, which is as close as I get to an existential crisis.

 

[mudsticks]

Think that's what I would have called a weekend away.

Yebbut what if you go on a Wednesday

 

[Cathryn]

I did some googling (in between watching the dramas in DC) and found this - some interesting points to think about.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/touring-vs-bikepacking-bikes-actual-differences/

(Off to school now - looking forward to seeing people's thoughts later)

 

[chriswoody]

How much does all that weigh? Doesn’t look very lightweight.

I was waiting for someone to make that comment! I had packed the rear bag quite badly that day and with the helmet perched on top, it does look unwieldy. I never weigh my kit, but with water and stove fuel included I would guess at about eight kilos. The problem is with it all spread out across the bike, it does look heavy, but trust me it's far from it.

Weight is a big consideration, looking at a traditional setup versus softbags some typical figures taken from another website:
Tubus Logo Rear Rack: 730 g
Tubus Tara Front Rack: 311 g
Ortlieb Back Roller Plus (pair): 70L 1680 g
Ortlieb Sport Roller (pair): 25L / 1590 g

So nearly 5 kg, before you have even started, my Topeak bags are:

Frontroller 8L 325g
Backroller 15L 565g
Midloader 6L 337g
Fuel Tank 0.75L 169g

So thats an all up weight of just under 1.4 kg before I've even started. Then I only have 30L of storage compared to 90L in a traditional setup, so I will invariably be much lighter, it just looks more cumbersome!

I know the invariable comeback is why? for me though the journey is important and by having a really light bike I was able to tackle some really technical and steep off-road terrain in Slovenia this summer. One day just South of Bovec, I met some traditional bike tourists on the road, then after a few kilometres I turned off and climbed to the top of Mount Stol, whilst they went the longer road route around the base. Both of us undoubtedly had a great time in our own respective ways, but bike choice and packing were certainly key in our route decisions. In all I travelled 420km and over 8000m of ascent in those 5 days, much of it on technical off-road and single track, not something I could have easily done on a heavier bike.

At the end of the day though, it's all bike touring, it's just using the term bikepacking is more descriptive of the actual touring style undertaken.

 

[currystomper]

I did some googling (in between watching the dramas in DC) and found this - some interesting points to think about.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/touring-vs-bikepacking-bikes-actual-differences/

(Off to school now - looking forward to seeing people's thoughts later)

Yup that pretty good, I would mention that you don't need a special bike either for most touring/bike packing cycles, but the more or further you go then they probably optimise the ride.

I converted a old mountain bike into a gravel/bike packing bike it's been great and a gravel bike is on my long term wish list. Also I think they make good sense as general first bikes as the cover a lot of types of cycling

 

[chriswoody]

I did some googling (in between watching the dramas in DC) and found this - some interesting points to think about.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/touring-vs-bikepacking-bikes-actual-differences/

(Off to school now - looking forward to seeing people's thoughts later)

Intriguing article, however, it seems to believe that it's the bike that makes it bikepacking, rather than the style of packing, which as @currystomper mentions, you don't need to do. When I first dipped my toes into this nefarious world I actually used my old Dawes Super Galaxy with a bunch of dry-bags strapped to it. I could just have easily used the old Ortleibs, however, with the route primarily off-road and some steep technical terrain in the mix, I took the option of a lighter load. My Current bike is the Kona Sutra LTD, which uses the same frame as the Kona Sutra touring bike. So I could easily bolt a rack to it and go the more traditional route instead if I so wanted. Fundamentally the premise of the article is wrong and not really addressing what bikepacking is, a much better perspective is here:

https://bikepacking.com/gear/bikepacking-bags/panniers-vs-bikepacking-bags/

 

[Blue Hills]

A micro adventure! A day out in my world.

I think a microadventure has to include a night away.
edit - said upthread as well I think.

 

[mjr]

So thats an all up weight of just under 1.4 kg before I've even started. Then I only have 30L of storage compared to 90L in a traditional setup, so I will invariably be much lighter, it just looks more cumbersome!

It not only looks more cumbersome, it is more cumbersome.

Rather than create a false dilemma by using Ortleib, you could use lighterweight bags on a rack. A transverse canvas saddlebag is 12 litres and 400g. A compression tail roll is 11 litres and 220g and a second could be stacked on if needed, and with a 750g rear rack, that's 34 litres for 1.6kg of bag and much more solidly fixed to the bike than most wagglers, plus easier to get stuff out of the saddlebag during the day, although personally, I'd go for a bar bag instead of the second roll, but that will be slightly smaller, slightly heavier and slightly easier access.

 

[chriswoody]

You could indeed use a rack, and there are some very lightweight racks out there that would do what you say and some folk do use them for bike packing, but they won't fit every bike though.

However, having used this set up extensively this year I can tell you it is not cumbersome nor waggly. The stuff I need during the day is near to hand in the frame bag and all the bags stay on the bike during the whole trip, they just open like conventional roll top panniers to access the contents.

 

[mudsticks]

It not only looks more cumbersome, it is more cumbersome.

Rather than create a false dilemma by using Ortleib, you could use lighterweight bags on a rack. A transverse canvas saddlebag is 12 litres and 400g. A compression tail roll is 11 litres and 220g and a second could be stacked on if needed, and with a 750g rear rack, that's 34 litres for 1.6kg of bag and much more solidly fixed to the bike than most wagglers, plus easier to get stuff out of the saddlebag during the day, although personally, I'd go for a bar bag instead of the second roll, but that will be slightly smaller, slightly heavier and slightly easier access.

Sounds a bit like my set up..
Sometimes.

Of course this whole debate is really just set up to play on our uncertainties, and encourage us to rethink our current practices.
Not necessarily a bad thing.

Nothing wrong with innovation and creative developments.

I for one am very happy with all the progress made in lightweight gear.

I quite regularly update things like sleeping mats for extra lightness with comfort, or invest in a new sleeping bags, if its warmer and lighter.

And am interested in anything that can make my trips, more comfortable, without adding weight - or even subtract it.

But ultimately its more important that you get out with whatever you do have, give it a go - that's the only way to find out what suits.

The investment can come later, once you've decided what's important to you.

We can call ourselves whatever we like

 

[lane]

My understanding has been that bike packing has two main claimed advantages, the bags themselves are lighter and the set up is more aerodynamic. I suspect there is something in this because it is the set up that top and very experienced ultra endurance racers use, so I suspect it is a faster set up. In my opinion it looks cooler as well. But I still use a traditional pannier set up myself because the bike packing set up looks a right faff, I would think it must take longer to get things out and put them away. So far my touring has been quite limited in duration (3 or 4 days) due to family and work commitments. I do credit card B&B stuff, with a pair of front roller Ortliebs on the back. I have quite a minimalist lightweight rack. I could be a bit more aero and lighter I expect, but since I am touring and not racing it really doesn't matter.

My panniers keep stuff dry and i can remove them form the bike to take into a B&B easily and quickly.

Here is a photo of my and my friends bikes on a touring trip.

 

[simongt]

Two panniers vs. multi bikebags. Now which bag did I put my wallet / multitool / keys / phone in - ?

 

[dodgy]

No one talks about 'credit card touring' anymore. Eventually we'll ditch the latest cool word and go back to touring again.