Touring...or 'bikepacking'?

[mudsticks]

Being a complete tart I have to take everything including the kitchen sink.

Being a bit of a lightweight - and the total opposite of 'domestic goddess' i prefer not to have to lug it all up all the hills

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I was waiting for someone to make that comment! I had packed the rear bag quite badly that day and with the helmet perched on top, it does look unwieldy. I never weigh my kit, but with water and stove fuel included I would guess at about eight kilos. The problem is with it all spread out across the bike, it does look heavy, but trust me it's far from it.

Weight is a big consideration, looking at a traditional setup versus softbags some typical figures taken from another website:
Tubus Logo Rear Rack: 730 g
Tubus Tara Front Rack: 311 g
Ortlieb Back Roller Plus (pair): 70L 1680 g
Ortlieb Sport Roller (pair): 25L / 1590 g

So nearly 5 kg, before you have even started, my Topeak bags are:

Frontroller 8L 325g
Backroller 15L 565g
Midloader 6L 337g
Fuel Tank 0.75L 169g

So thats an all up weight of just under 1.4 kg before I've even started. Then I only have 30L of storage compared to 90L in a traditional setup, so I will invariably be much lighter, it just looks more cumbersome!

I know the invariable comeback is why? for me though the journey is important and by having a really light bike I was able to tackle some really technical and steep off-road terrain in Slovenia this summer. One day just South of Bovec, I met some traditional bike tourists on the road, then after a few kilometres I turned off and climbed to the top of Mount Stol, whilst they went the longer road route around the base. Both of us undoubtedly had a great time in our own respective ways, but bike choice and packing were certainly key in our route decisions. In all I travelled 420km and over 8000m of ascent in those 5 days, much of it on technical off-road and single track, not something I could have easily done on a heavier bike.

At the end of the day though, it's all bike touring, it's just using the term bikepacking is more descriptive of the actual touring style undertaken.

You are not comparing like with like though. If you want to compare weights then you need to look at same carrying capacity. So your backpacking setup is 30l. So that would be

Fly classic rear rack 420g
2 x Altura vortex ultra light panniers 15l each - 520g total weight.

So same capacity as your setup and weighing 940g
Your setup weight 1396g

So with a traditional setup, you can save 446g in weight. Plus it’s a much simpler, waterproof, and better looking setup. If you care about the latter.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I should add that because of the rack , you can also strap your tent on top. Thus freeing up space in the panniers. So in effect you have more carrying capacity for much less weight.

 

[lane]

I replaced my maybe 30 year old Karymore panniers with waterproof Ortliebs after this trip

 

[chriswoody]

You are not comparing like with like though. If you want to compare weights then you need to look at same carrying capacity. So your backpacking setup is 30l. So that would be

Fly classic rear rack 420g
2 x Altura vortex ultra light panniers 15l each - 520g total weight.

So same capacity as your setup and weighing 940g
Your setup weight 1396g

So with a traditional setup, you can save 446g in weight. Plus it’s a much simpler, waterproof, and better looking setup. If you care about the latter.

What I was attempting to do was compare a traditional touring set up with a more typical bike-packing setup rather than try to find the most ultralight set up using panniers.

It is a valid point point though about those panniers though, it is a very light set up and compares very favourably to a bag only approach. Though it won't work for all bike types, especially some mountain bikes. I personally still prefer to have bags myself and have enjoyed using them this year, finding them neither wobbly or a faff.

 

[palinurus]

@palinurus I think you've found the Rosetta Stone of this whole debate. Good work!

Presumably from 'backpacking', the meaning of which has drifted since this book was published (1978) (from walking journeys, carrying camping equipment to meaning international low-budget travel often mixing tourism and work)

 

[matticus]

For me, most of these posts have taken the rational approach; it's all cycle-touring, but various names have been hung on various branches. And most of the branches have a lot of overlap! (between their leaves?)

Going back to Cathryn's post that triggered this:

I've started listening to the Explore editions of the Cycling Podcast and I'm really enjoying them. I loved the episode with Timmy Mallett...may bring some brightness to your lockdown.
https://thecyclingpodcast.com/explore

Some will say that TCP's approach is extreme, but for me it's quite typical, and they are playing to the gallery. Look at the blurb:

Explore launched as a series looking at the world of bikepacking, endurance and ultra-endurance riding in late 2018.

Hosted by Lionel Birnie and Hannah Troop, with regular contributions from former Team Sky and Katusha-Alpecin pro rider Ian Boswell, Explore will cover everything from the hardest of the hardcore to gravel racing to adventures that simply enable a rider to see the world on two wheels.

Notice anything about their vocabulary?

Then look at the last two episodes; about 2h40 in total. Not 1 mention of the banned words. Now that includes an hour on Timmy Mallett (well known Ultra-race hipster - not!) who rode unsupported, by e-bike, from Hampshire-ish through France, then the Camino route*. About 30-40 mile days I think. Mostly in paid-for accommodation. Stopping most days to look at and paint things.
How would you, dear reader, describe that style of travel?

*In 2018, he rode the pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela and he wrote about the very personal reason for making the trip in his book Utterly Brilliant, which is part travelogue, part memoir.

 

[mudsticks]

Presumably from 'backpacking', the meaning of which has drifted since this book was published (1978) (from walking journeys, carrying camping equipment to meaning international low-budget travel often mixing tourism and work)

Words eh??

i used to do a lot more 'backpacking' of the hitchhiking about all over - on a budget and camping out - but rarely walking more than 8km fully loaded.

Whereas now i do far more lightweight 'backpacking' mainly through mountainous areas of Europe for days on end carrying all camping gear and food.

Of course we have the Americanisms of thru-hiking, or multiday hiking coming into that sphere too.

And before long it will all change again...

 

[raleighnut]

3 'touring' bikes here, a light one (Raleigh Equipe) a medium one (Ridgeback Adventure) and a heavy one also used to pull a trailer (Raleigh Outlander rigid MTB)

 

[lane]

This happens to be my favorite cycling book. I think it probably tells you where I stand.

 

[iandg]

I'm a cross-dresser

I suppose I'd be classed a tourist but I probably cover too many miles/day at too fast a pace, which could put me in the bikepacker category. Although I do stop to look at the view etc., it's more about the riding and the exploring/adventure of new roads than visiting the attractions along the way. I prefer panniers or a traditional saddlebag (depending on the length of the trip). I have tried modern saddle packs/bike packing kit but found it a pain to get in and out of when on the road - so if I choose to ride with the Alpkit I add a traditional bar bag for items I may require en-route putting my overnight kit in the saddlepack. I haven't done a gravel overnighter (such as the badger divide) yet but when I do (not if ) I'll use a traditional saddlebag.

 

[TheDoctor]

Must say, my default touring kit now is a Brompton M12R and 1.5 kg of T-Bag. Gives me 30l of luggage, which is more than I need for ten days, plus stuff on the rear rack if I need it, and allows me to travel on Eurostar, busses and anything else that takes my fancy.
That 15l Topeak bag looks good though.

 

[iandg]

Must say, my default touring kit now is a Brompton M12R and 1.5 kg of T-Bag. Gives me 30l of luggage, which is more than I need for ten days, plus stuff on the rear rack if I need it, and allows me to travel on Eurostar, busses and anything else that takes my fancy.
That 15l Topeak bag looks good though.

Excuse my ignorance but what's a T-bag? (I know the beverage and sexual 'urban slang' meaning)

 

[iandg]

Thanks @Dogtrousers

 

[mudsticks]

I'm a cross-dresser

I suppose I'd be classed a tourist but I probably cover too many miles/day at too fast a pace, which could put me in the bikepacker category. Although I do stop to look at the view etc., it's more about the riding and the exploring/adventure of new roads than visiting the attractions along the way. I prefer panniers or a traditional saddlebag (depending on the length of the trip). I have tried modern saddle packs/bike packing kit but found it a pain to get in and out of when on the road - so if I choose the Alpkit I use a traditional bar bag for items I may require en-route putting my overnight kit in the saddlepack. I haven't done a gravel overnighter (such as the badger divide) yet but when I do (not if ) I'll use a traditional saddlebag.

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Me too

Although it appears to have been a 'laundry' day