Travel In the Aftermath

[Deleted member 26715]

I am ready to be shot down in flames over this, but isn't the internet reliant on huge amounts of energy used by the IT companies and service providers to run their warehouses full of computers and servers?

Yes, our network runs on around 50 online servers on 2 continents, for each server within the same datacentre is a slave server which does nothing other that replicate everything that the master server is currently doing, so that if the master fails it can take over immediately, then in the other datacentre across the globe there are another 2 slaves doing exactly the same, so that if we lose a datacentre then 1 of the servers will become master & the other remain as slave. So for the 50 online servers running, we actually have 200 servers, 3/4 of which do nothing be eat electricity & we are a miniscule company.

 

[ozboz]

I'm looking forward to more train and ferry journeys to family in the Netherlands and Ireland. Not cheap but it's a big bonus that I can take my bike.

I feel for families who are more widespread. No easy or green way to get from UK to Australia.

myself and family fall in this cat, Australia may as well be on Mars !
At least 20-22 hours flying time plus hanging around airports en-route , far from ideal ,

 

[tom73]

Marr this morning in an interview with Michael Palin asked him about travel.
His reply summed up how travel needs to be "travel less travel well"
Travel as most know it won't be back for some time if at all. Much of Air travel was already already on it's knees.
The current situation has just speeded up the ongoing consolidation of much of the travel industry.
Air travel is not my thing I find it totally boring I really do get cabin fever and see it as an unenjoyable experience.
We holiday in the UK it's the dog holidays too what I'm looking forward to exploring even more of what we have to offer.
If on two wheels then even better.

 

[ozboz]

Marr this morning in an interview with Michael Palin asked him about travel.
His reply summed up how travel needs to be "travel less travel well"
Travel as most know it won't be back for some time if at all. Much of Air travel was already already on it's knees.
The current situation has just speeded up the ongoing consolidation of much of the travel industry.
Air travel is not my thing I find it totally boring I really do get cabin fever and see it as an unenjoyable experience.
We holiday in the UK it's the dog holidays too what I'm looking forward to exploring even more of what we have to offer.
If on two wheels then even better.

I had already begun to take steps to travel more in the UK, bike packing , my first ride was supposed to be in Snowdonia at Easter , but alas .....
any way , Snowdonia will still be there , I want to do Holy Island to St Bees CtC , also lochs of Scotland , and Castles and Coasts Nouthumbria ,
There’s lot see ,

 

[slowmotion]

Yes, our network runs on around 50 online servers on 2 continents, for each server within the same datacentre is a slave server which does nothing other that replicate everything that the master server is currently doing, so that if the master fails it can take over immediately, then in the other datacentre across the globe there are another 2 slaves doing exactly the same, so that if we lose a datacentre then 1 of the servers will become master & the other remain as slave. So for the 50 online servers running, we actually have 200 servers, 3/4 of which do nothing be eat electricity & we are a miniscule company.

I read somewhere that in three or four years time 20% of all the electricity generated worldwide would be used by internet servers.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

myself and family fall in this cat, Australia may as well be on Mars !
At least 20-22 hours flying time plus hanging around airports en-route , far from ideal ,

Perth is down to 14 hours, but still a long flight

 

[Slick]

Quarantine would kill travel for holidays unless it was based on some quantifiable measure such as you have a temperature etc.

Yeah definitely, I mentioned this to my sister in Florida as she is hoping we will be there in October but I can't see it myself as I think they will have quarantine but my poor BIL who is in the merchant navy and has already missed his leave rotation as he can't get back to the states but he would definitely do quarantine even if it meant completing it on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I don't think we're anywhere near being able to figure out the future of travel and tourism at the moment.

Never mind the fact that the global economy is crashing on a scale we don't fully comprehend yet, the effects are going to be wide and very, very varied.

Just taking camping as an example. I can see campgrounds going out of business in the short and long-term.

If campgrounds have to limit occupancy or expand facilities to satisfy social distancing costs will go up and access may be limited - regulars only, advance reservations only, market segmentation at the expense of the lower revenue segments.

Whereas stealth/wild camping may have been tolerated before it may not be in the future, especially without vaccinations.

Even a trip to a village pub or restaurant may not be an option for visitors, unless for take away. If I've a restaurant that used to hold 50 people but now can only hold 20 and I have a choice to make between serving Mr & Mrs Regular Local or Mr. & Mrs. Tourist I know who I'll be serving.

Even the idea of a "staycation" assumes that people have the money to spend on one and can be satisfied by what is on offer - which may be a very different "product" to what was on offer a year ago.

Take that example and apply it to an industry as wide and varied as travel and tourism and it is impossible to predict what will happen.

Forgetting about tourism for a moment and considering non-recreational travel for a moment….. Lots of industry, especially agriculture, depend on "importing" labour at certain times of the year. That may not be possible, or when possible, will likely be a lot costlier in the future. That has an impact on the "home" places of the workers as well as the food supply in the "host" country.

I'm currently in Mexico in a small town. The majority of men of working age work in the US for months at a time. If they can't travel to work there is no work here for them. In that scenario the future of this town is devastating. The impact of this type of situation will be replicated in many countries in this part of the world resulting in much instability and God knows what consequences down the line.

I'm of the opinion that this is a great, once in a lifetime opportunity for the world to rebalance itself, I just hope we can take it.

 

[Littgull]

I read somewhere that in three or four years time 20% of all the electricity generated worldwide would be used by internet servers.

But I do think there is a credible viewpoint that if electricity is used to facilitate use of the internet which results in many more people working from home then this will probably produce a net benefit for climate change rather than having all these people commuting to work and burning huge amounts of fuel. Video conferencing too instead of people travelling to meetings.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Working from home where possible as a norm would be great. Even just having people work from home 50% of the time would have a tremendous impact on pollution and traffic. Plus if working from home becomes the norm for many it’ll be very disruptive to house prices with possible price crashes near London and gains elsewhere.

On another point on travel I think the length and timescales of supply chains will see drastic change after review of how well they’re working in this pandemic. A revival of UK manufacturing, particularly around PPE, would be a good outcome for example.

 

[ozboz]

the travel attire of the Future maybe ?

 

[Nigelnaturist]

I read somewhere that in three or four years time 20% of all the electricity generated worldwide would be used by internet servers.

Renewable energy sources can account for more if the will is there, though not entirely green, Gen4 Nuclear Power Stations . there are several designs in the pipe line, however at the end of the day it is down to us to reduce.
Just have a look a CO2 since the 50's

It would be irresponsible to say other than a lot of this is from transport, but there are many factors, some say China is a big producer and so it is but per capita is no worse than the UK, the US and Australia rank as some of the highest per capita, and from what I hear about the Oz P.M. he is all for fossil fuels as they have large reserves.
We as people of the world have to take the responsibility and change our habits, other wise the little darlings that keep getting born may have no world by the time they are old, population is something we have to do something about, what made our species so incredibly successful may be its down fall.

 

[IaninSheffield]

Yet many use the internet without thought of the damage it is doing

Can you quantify this

I am ready to be shot down in flames over this, but isn't the internet reliant on huge amounts of energy used by the IT companies and service providers to run their warehouses full of computers and servers?

There's a relatively recent (fairly balanced?) Guardian article illustrating this and supporting what @Phaeton and @slowmotion say:

So for the 50 online servers running, we actually have 200 servers, 3/4 of which do nothing be eat electricity & we are a miniscule company.

I read somewhere that in three or four years time 20% of all the electricity generated worldwide would be used by internet servers.

But I do think there is a credible viewpoint that if electricity is used to facilitate use of the internet which results in many more people working from home then this will probably produce a net benefit for climate change rather than having all these people commuting to work and burning huge amounts of fuel. Video conferencing too instead of people travelling to meetings.

This may indeed be the case, but it's a complex issue. For example, would ten employees each working at their individual home make greater demands on the energy supply than if the same ten employees were in a single office? Is it the same for colder or warmer months? In different parts of the world?
The benefit from reduced (carbon consuming) travel might indeed outweigh other considerations ... but an alternative view might be to reduce the carbon consuming aspect of the travel, rather than the travel itself.
I'd be interested to see the TOTAL national energy consumption figures prior to, during and post crisis. We've travelled less for sure, but have we consumed less overall?

 

[stoatsngroats]

It’ll be interesting to see if we become globally, more involved with our own countries and cultures as a result, because international travel is definitely going to reduce (imho).
What the global population figures will do will be interesting to see, as we need a significant reduction (of humans) to improve the sustainable potential of this earth.
Regards ‘local’ travel (in each country) I’m optimistic that changes will be made by some, but maybe not enough people to make much of a difference.

 

[IaninSheffield]

I would be very happy with the government introducing a one return flight a year rule.
This would be ample for most people.

There must be thousands of people with holiday homes in Spain that will be unused this year.

There's an interesting discussion around these issues in this podcast "(F)AIR MILES: the case for a frequent flyer tax", not least a progressive taxation system for frequent flyers.