Turbo Trainers...Rejoice!!

[Rob3rt]

Arsene Gear talks sense, he sets his turbo trainer up using a well thought out protocol, do you? I doubt it.

Riding the turbo trainer may have less external influences than outdoors, but the influences that it is subject to are substantial enough to render speed measurement useless unless you go to great lengths such as those outlined by Arsene Gear.

Your comments are absolute bullshit (I think you are the only person on here who has not realised this yet)... if you do 17mph for 1 hour today, you won't neccessarily be able to do that tomorrow, as the resistance curve of the turbo trainer (and other settings with regards to your bike) will change by tomorrow in most cases. I would hazard a guess that 99% of turbo trainer users do not calibrate their turbo like Arsene Gear!

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

No - I just don't agree with you.
Turbo has got to have the least number of variables as its a controlled environment,

My dining room is a controlled environment? Should I stop my family from walking through in case they change the air temperature?

no wind resistance , no road variables

Both reasons why speed is meaningless. There is zero correlation between 30mph on a turbo and 30mph on the road. They are if you will, chalk and cheese.

and if you set your bike up as Arsen does your in damn near scientific testing conditions.

At what point is a scientific condition in any way close to how the average person mounts a bike on a turbo in their shed/house/garage?

Watts of power ? - isn't measured on a cycle computer (though I dare say you could find an obscure one that does). Admittedly on a turbo it doesn't matter which parameter your going to measure yourself against, - watts produced, mph - its only an indicator of performance. -

Power is an indication of your performance and output(your legs and cv system). Speed is an indication of how fast your rear wheel is turning against a metal roller while none of the road going factors effect it.

They are not the same thing, nor in any way similar.

The aerobars thing is for a different thread, (not that I,m disagreeing with what you said) but maybe for turboing they should be looked at as under - look at your riding position , are you in the best posture for performance.
I find they help by putting me in a very attack position and forcing me to work harder.

Is putting weight on aero-bars with your arse off the saddle the best posture for performance? If so, why does nobody else in the world do it?

 

[d87francis]

@Licramite - You've missed the biggest variable of all, the level of pressure between the rear wheel and the turbo fly wheel. I don't think you can guarantee that it will be the same every time you clip your bike in and our of the turbo.

 

[Licramite]

I don't take the bike out so it probably don't change much.- I do check occasionally.- good point though.

only a complete idiot would try and compare performance on the turbo to what he's going to achieve on the road - I may be an idiot (tmhnet) -but I'm not that dumb.
And if minor changes in air tempritures, position of the moon and the sun to earth or slight mechanical changes on the turbo change things - I still have the same target and I damn well go for it.
I go by mph , choose your own factor , at least I don't use the -' how did I feel that went to today ' method.
good question - I don't know why more people don't use aero bars maybe they should give it a go before dismissing it.

and yes I don't set my turbo up as finely as Arsn - lifes to short - but good for him. I know my cycle computer is not accurate - at least its consistantly inaccurate - its only a target.

 

[Rob3rt]

I don't take the bike out so it probably don't change much.- I do check occasionally.- good point though.

only a complete idiot would try and compare performance on the turbo to what he's going to achieve on the road - I may be an idiot (tmhnet) -but I'm not that dumb.
And if minor changes in air tempritures, position of the moon and the sun to earth or slight mechanical changes on the turbo change things - I still have the same target and I damn well go for it.
I go by mph , choose your own factor , at least I don't use the -' how did I feel that went to today ' method.
good question - I don't know why more people don't use aero bars maybe they should give it a go before dismissing it.

and yes I don't set my turbo up as finely as Arsn - lifes to short - but good for him. I know my cycle computer is not accurate - at least its consistantly inaccurate - its only a target.

That is not what RPE is. Please do some reading!

I ride on aero bars plenty, for time trials and training for time trials, i.e. for the purpose they are intended for!

 

[G3CWI]

Wrong thread - sorry

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

only a complete idiot would try and compare performance on the turbo to what he's going to achieve on the road - I may be an idiot (tmhnet) -but I'm not that dumb.

The evidence on the contrary is overwhelming.

I go by mph , choose your own factor , at least I don't use the -' how did I feel that went to today ' method.
good question

Which is not RPE. I suggest you do some reading.

I don't know why more people don't use aero bars maybe they should give it a go before dismissing it.

People do use aero bars,but only an idiot would use your method.

 

[Licramite]

That is not what RPE is. Please do some reading!

I ride on aero bars plenty, for time trials and training for time trials, i.e. for the purpose they are intended for!

I read the Borg test - its the herbal medican of the training world. - I'm afraid I'm not a sholain monk.-
and if you go on the thread 'Get my heart rate up' you will see the bit about training levels to heart rate - as I said I got to level 4 (briefly) which is the begining level for a racers workout. and about 40% of my max heart rate - and I was Fkd.

but let me apologise for earlier comments, I should have guessed you did TT. (But on other sites people do use them for hillclimbing - although I'm coming to the conclusion I'm going to have to up my handling skills to make them worth thier while. - but I'm getting off topic)

 

[Licramite]

The evidence on the contrary is overwhelming.

Which is not RPE. I suggest you do some reading.


People do use aero bars,but only an idiot would use your method.

Huh - I've been called an idiot by bigger idiots than you !

 

[Demonclimber]

I read the Borg test - its the herbal medican of the training world. - I'm afraid I'm not a sholain monk.-
and if you go on the thread 'Get my heart rate up' you will see the bit about training levels to heart rate - as I said I got to level 4 (briefly) which is the begining level for a racers workout. and about 40% of my max heart rate - and I was Fkd.

but let me apologise for earlier comments, I should have guessed you did TT. (But on other sites people do use them for hillclimbing - although I'm coming to the conclusion I'm going to have to up my handling skills to make them worth thier while. - but I'm getting off topic)

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[T.M.H.N.E.T]

I read the Borg test - its the herbal medican of the training world. - I'm afraid I'm not a sholain monk.-

You didn't as the borg test doesn't exist. It is the Borg Scale and it is not a test.

and if you go on the thread 'Get my heart rate up' you will see the bit about training levels to heart rate - as I said I got to level 4 (briefly) which is the begining level for a racers workout. and about 40% of my max heart rate - and I was Fkd.

Zone4 as you posted = 82-89% so at the very least a Z4 ride would start at 137bpm

MaxHR you claim to be 168 of which 40% is 67BPM. 137bpm is therefore not 40% of your max hr so you simply can't have been near Z4.

but let me apologise for earlier comments, I should have guessed you did TT. (But on other sites people do use them for hillclimbing - although I'm coming to the conclusion I'm going to have to up my handling skills to make them worth thier while. - but I'm getting off topic)

Now it's a handling issue? So the extra power you put out(notably claimed as MPH)

How much more power?
2-3mph

doesn't exist now?

Huh - I've been called an idiot by bigger idiots than you !

You have indeed. By yourself.

 

[Rob3rt]

I read the Borg test - its the herbal medican of the training world. - I'm afraid I'm not a sholain monk.-
and if you go on the thread 'Get my heart rate up' you will see the bit about training levels to heart rate - as I said I got to level 4 (briefly) which is the begining level for a racers workout. and about 40% of my max heart rate - and I was Fkd.

but let me apologise for earlier comments, I should have guessed you did TT. (But on other sites people do use them for hillclimbing - although I'm coming to the conclusion I'm going to have to up my handling skills to make them worth thier while. - but I'm getting off topic)

I am well aware of the basics of how HR training is conducted, apparently you are not!

The Borg scale (and other such scales) is used extensively along with other methods for rating training intensity. If you rely solely on gadgets what do you do in a race when your power meter battery runs out, or your Garmin ceases to work? You are forced to revert to rating your perceived exertion through feel, it is something you should do regularly in training and note the correlation to other objective measurements so you are not completely screwed if your gadgets fail.

 

[Licramite]

You didn't as the borg test doesn't exist. It is the Borg Scale and it is not a test.


Zone4 as you posted = 82-89% so at the very least a Z4 ride would start at 137bpm

MaxHR you claim to be 168 of which 40% is 67BPM. 137bpm is therefore not 40% of your max hr so you simply can't have been near Z4.


Now it's a handling issue? So the extra power you put out(notably claimed as MPH) doesn't exist now?


You have indeed. By yourself.

just to clarify
your right zone 4 was 82-89% - which was bloody hard. - and I didn't sustain it for long - but at least I know I achieved that and didn't think I achieved it.
the 2-3mph was on a turbo not on a bike going up a hill wobbly - two different conversations here. and again I know I did it because I had a spedo on my turbo and again not by how I felt. - or imagined.

fortunately don't have to worry about kit failure on a turbo - so I don't have to think how well I did, I use a cycle computer.

 

[Licramite]

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I had a keyboard like that but it was the F key , got me into loads of trouble

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

just to clarify
your right zone 4 was 82-89% - which was bloody hard. - and I didn't sustain it for long - but at least I know I achieved that and didn't think I achieved it.

Yes,dying at 137bpm is worth celebrating.

the 2-3mph was on a turbo not on a bike going up a hill wobbly - two different conversations here

It's funny, you claimed aero bars gave you more power in this very thread,and seem to have forgot about it. More power(W) which you categorically stated, equaled 2-3MPH
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/turbo-trainers-rejoice.126047/#post-2359275
http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/turbo-trainers-rejoice.126047/#post-2359286

and again I know I did it because I had a spedo on my turbo and again not by how I felt. - or imagined.

Once again. You measured something which is highly meaningless,trying to justify it and doing a very poor job. I have a spd/cad sensor on my bike, I use a HRM - I use interactive training software, hell I even use my Edge800.

None of that tech is required and all it can produce is some numbers,some of which have merit depending on how you apply them.

Here are some: 1 - 30 - 17 - 172 - 2013 - 13 - 14 - 0 What to they mean?

fortunately don't have to worry about kit failure on a turbo - so I don't have to think how well I did, I use a cycle computer.

You still haven't got this RPE thing I see(or a general clue about training)