Unsupervised children and dogs!

[Accy cyclist]

I remember a story told to me about some well to do bloke centuries ago who found his son mauled to death by what he thought was his dog. In a moment of rage he drew his sword and killed the dog. He later found out that the dog was covered in blood as it had attacked a wolf or similar, trying to protect the child, not harm it!

 

[CopperCyclist]

I'm sorry and I really am, but how the hell can a family pet not be left with a child? It's part of family life. Personally based on what little information you gave....if my family pet bit or 'snapped' even a little bit, I'd would have done the same.

What choice would you have? Risk it, which would be unfair on the child, the pet and the parents or guardians. Pass it onto others, knowing full well what could happen....imagine the guilt if Deefer snapped again and hurt someone or a pet.

And you say, don't leave your kids unsupervised with family pets. You might as well say, don't have pets if you've got kids.

I think the suggestion is Deefer didn't really bite the child. If any dog truly bite a child in the face then you're likely to get more than a 'mark'. If a child tried to stuff my Staffy into a drawer all he would do is try to run away. It sounds like it was the child that needed retraining rather than the dog in that scenario.

 

[EltonFrog]

Do 3 year olds lie?

Too feckin right they do, their parents teach them to lie. An old jewish saying "Break a promise to a child you teach the child to lie."

 

[Alun]

I remember a story told to me about some well to do bloke centuries ago who found his son mauled to death by what he thought was his dog. In a moment of rage he drew his sword and killed the dog. He later found out that the dog was covered in blood as it had attacked a wolf or similar, trying to protect the child, not harm it!

Google Beddgelert for the full story, thought to be a myth though.

 

[Lisa21]

I remember a story told to me about some well to do bloke centuries ago who found his son mauled to death by what he thought was his dog. In a moment of rage he drew his sword and killed the dog. He later found out that the dog was covered in blood as it had attacked a wolf or similar, trying to protect the child, not harm it!

Aah yes. "Gelert". A lovely..and supposedly true..welsh folklore.

 

[Lisa21]

"Beddgelert"..aka "Gelert's Grave" is where he is supposedly buried. Its a lovely story and truth or folklore it is no doubt the same as many "old wives tales" and has its origins in a true story.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

I have been reading some research papers, and unfortunely 3 year olds are capable of deception. However, most of the trials are asking the child if they touched a toy or not. I'm not convinced that a child would 'mark' itself as part of the deception.

Therefore on what I have read this pm, I stand by my earlier statement, the dog should have been destroyed. It now lives a miserable life in a cage and IMO is unlikely to be taken in by anyone. And as dogs are pack animals, this is sad

 

[Lisa21]

I have been reading some research papers, and unfortunely 3 year olds are capable of deception. However, most of the trials are asking the child if they touched a toy or not. I'm not convinced that a child would 'mark' itself as part of the deception.

Therefore on what I have read this pm, I stand by my earlier statement, the dog should have been destroyed. It now lives a miserable life in a cage and IMO is unlikely to be taken in by anyone. And as dogs are pack animals, this is sad

That is utter crap. No, Im sure a 3 year old would not "mark itself as part of the deception" but if asked "did you hurt the doggie?" would say "no" by reflex as is old enough to understand that saying yes to that question may get him/her into trouble. And as for the dog now living a "miserable life in a cage and not get rehomed" I would like to bet that by the end of Jan he will have a lovely home. He sounds a great dog. And your statement that the dog should be destroyed because of a minor mishap-well, I am not prepared to comment on that on a public forum. Lets just keep it in perspective, thank god the child was not hurt and has hopefully learned to treat animals with more respect in the future.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

That is utter crap. No, Im sure a 3 year old would not "mark itself as part of the deception" but if asked "did you hurt the doggie?" would say "no" by reflex as is old enough to understand that saying yes to that question may get him/her into trouble. And as for the dog now living a "miserable life in a cage and not get rehomed" I would like to bet that by the end of Jan he will have a lovely home. He sounds a great dog. And your statement that the dog should be destroyed because of a minor mishap-well, I am not prepared to comment on that on a public forum. Lets just keep it in perspective, thank god the child was not hurt and has hopefully learned to treat animals with more respect in the future.

Are you,trolling?

Lets hope a human child has learnt it's lesson, are you for real? Based on the little info given, the dog has risk attached. Therefore there is risk to society, maybe minimal, but you're willing to risk a human coming to harm over a dog?

Sorry I disagree, if the dog has snapped once, regardless of any provocation, it's too risky to risk further possible harm, very sad I agree, but too risky.

 

[EltonFrog]

That is utter crap. No, Im sure a 3 year old would not "mark itself as part of the deception" but if asked "did you hurt the doggie?" would say "no" by reflex as is old enough to understand that saying yes to that question may get him/her into trouble. And as for the dog now living a "miserable life in a cage and not get rehomed" I would like to bet that by the end of Jan he will have a lovely home. He sounds a great dog. And your statement that the dog should be destroyed because of a minor mishap-well, I am not prepared to comment on that on a public forum. Lets just keep it in perspective, thank god the child was not hurt and has hopefully learned to treat animals with more respect in the future.

I typed out a long response to bromptonfb's post, but I had to delete because it became "emotional".

I expect Deefer will get re-homed very soon. Dog charities round this next of the woods tend not to let folk adopt or take on dogs over the Christmas period for fear of them being returned. I hope the OP can keep us all updated on the Deefers future.

 

[EltonFrog]

Are you,trolling?

Lets hope a human child has learnt it's lesson, are you for real? Based on the little info given, the dog has risk attached. Therefore there is risk to society, maybe minimal, but you're willing to risk a human coming to harm over a dog?

A human child? As opposes to what other kind of child? You do not know what risk is attached to the dog any more than the rest of us do.

Sorry I disagree, if the dog has snapped once, regardless of any provocation, it's too risky to risk further possible harm, very sad I agree, but too risky.

You don't know the facts, so you are entitled to disagree, but you are also entitled to be wrong until you know the facts.

 

[Sara_H]

I think the suggestion is Deefer didn't really bite the child. If any dog truly bite a child in the face then you're likely to get more than a 'mark'. If a child tried to stuff my Staffy into a drawer all he would do is try to run away. It sounds like it was the child that needed retraining rather than the dog in that scenario.

I'm sorry, but that's totally wrong. We had a very similar experience.
We adopted a stray dog when our son was 3. Despite my best intentions, the day came when I let my guard down and left them alone. I heard a dog snap and son cry, he in with a red mark and small broken area on his cheek. Dog had bitten him. I gave him a stern talking to about not upsetting the dig and was more careful from then.
A few weeks later a friend was visiting, I left her alone with dog while I went to loo, dog attacked friend, biting her across the bridge of the nose, without any warning in a completely unprovoked attack. Friend had to have hospital treatment.
Very sadly, when I asked the rescue centre to rehome her they wouldn't consider it. She was considered to be a dangerous dog because she'd gone for the face, and the attack was unprovoked and without warning. She was put to sleep and we were absolutely heartbroken.

 

[Saluki]

Lets hope Deefer gets a fresh start and a new home.
My old GSD gave a friends brat er kid a nip when he was trying to ram crayons down my dog's ears. I had my back turned to said child while making a cup of tea. Kid's owner should have been watching the kid. I refused point blank to have my dog PTS after he nipped (and it was a nip only). Let's face it the kid was trying to hurt the dog. His ear was bleeding.
Maybe this 3 year old was hurting Deefer. Staffies will put up with a lot from family member. They are known as 'nanny dogs' as they are wonderful with children and especially wonderful with their family's children. I think that there is more to this story and that the vet was totally correct. Staffies are not my sort of dog, we have a household full of greyhounds and Jack Russells but most Staffies are great. Some of their owners are numpties though.

 

[EltonFrog]

I'm sorry, but that's totally wrong. We had a very similar experience.
We adopted a stray dog when our son was 3. Despite my best intentions, the day came when I let my guard down and left them alone. I heard a dog snap and son cry, he in with a red mark and small broken area on his cheek. Dog had bitten him. I gave him a stern talking to about not upsetting the dig and was more careful from then.
A few weeks later a friend was visiting, I left her alone with dog while I went to loo, dog attacked friend, biting her across the bridge of the nose, without any warning in a completely unprovoked attack. Friend had to have hospital treatment.
Very sadly, when I asked the rescue centre to regime her they wouldn't consider it. She was considered to be a dangerous dog because she'd gone for the face, and the attack was unprovoked and without warning. She was put to sleep and we were absolutely heartbroken.

This very sad and in your case it was the right thing to do, but you know what the facts are in your case and you did the right thing.

We don't know what all the facts are in Deefers case so to say something is totally wrong without those facts is inappropriate.

 

[Sara_H]

I don't really understand why this has turned into a child v dog thread . The OP states that the child admitted that he was hurting the dog, quite understandable that the dog snapped. Also quite understandable that the family have decided they can't keep the dog.