Upsetting the 4x4 mums on Mumsnet

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OP
OP
T
Location
Behind a desk
Come on DildoLunchFlaps, pay attention.

I've addressed my arguments to "Drivers", not specifically 4x4 drivers. Are you feeling a bit persecuted? Or a bit guilty?

The implication is that there are 2500 non driving deaths in the stats caused by car in particular which is a blatant porky

Your inference, DildorfBunchlox, not my implication.

Yes, drivers kill other drivers, but also pedestrians, passengers, and other road users. I wasn't differentiating. You've created a straw man argument about your own interpretation of one of my points, in order to cover up your lack of counter argument.
 

LLB

Guest
On one of the forums I use, a mother of 2 who uses the car for the school run with her kids has just complained bitterly that the Nissan 4x4 she bought 3 weeks ago (on a 55 plate) is going to be hammered for road tax with the new budget, and they are now considering selling it. BooHoo tough luck you say, but they are dairy farmers who move cattle and horses around with it as well.

My sister uses her 4x4 to run her youngest daughter to school in cheshire, and she will be hit by the new taxes, she works for the milk marketing board (or whatever they are called), and has to collect milk samples from the cows from 4 different farms. She gets a fuel allowance, but its her car, and she couldn't get onto some of the farms with a regular car in the winter. She also tows a horsebox.

To penalise the few, you end up hitting the many IMO, and these are working vehicles.
 

Jaded

New Member
LLB, you cannot take a couple of carefully selected examples and extrapolate them to the whole population.

The first one should have a Land Rover, like they used to and the second one should have a Land Rover, like they used to.

(When I say 'they' I am not referring to the particular people in your example, bit to the general population of livestock farmers and rural agency workers that need access to farm land.)

Sorted.
 

LLB

Guest
Twenty Inch said:
Come on DildoLunchFlaps, pay attention.

I've addressed my arguments to "Drivers", not specifically 4x4 drivers. Are you feeling a bit persecuted? Or a bit guilty?



Your inference, DildorfBunchlox, not my implication.

Yes, drivers kill other drivers, but also pedestrians, passengers, and other road users. I wasn't differentiating. You've created a straw man argument about your own interpretation of one of my points, in order to cover up your lack of counter argument.

So why use the title ' Upsetting the 4x4 mums on Mumsnet' if you weren't targeting a specific group Twenty inch ?

We aren't in the playground now, so drop the name calling eh ;)
 

LLB

Guest
Jaded said:
LLB, you cannot take a couple of carefully selected examples and extrapolate them to the whole population.

The first one should have a Land Rover, like they used to and the second one should have a Land Rover, like they used to.

(When I say 'they' I am not referring to the particular people in your example, bit to the general population of livestock farmers and rural agency workers that need access to farm land.)

Sorted.

There are loads of 4x4s around this way Jaded. As well as having our fair share of industry, we are also fairly agricultural as well in Gloucestershire.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
linfordlunchbox said:
To penalise the few, you end up hitting the many IMO, and these are working vehicles.

Hilarious. There must be a sh*tload of farms I didn't know about in central Brighton then!!;):biggrin:
 

LLB

Guest
So she has to run a second car to get around with as well as the one she used to tow the trailer ?

There are many reasons to justify 4x4 ownership for horse owners. You are very limited to where you can ride without it, and the horses are competed (impossible without transport).

For many serious cycling competitors, lack of transport would make competition out of the question.
 

snorri

Legendary Member
WTF is all this about horses, all the farmers around here have tractors, and when they did used to have horses, the horses walked everywhere. On the odd occasion that the horse needed a lift, they got the beast into a trailer and yolked it to a fit horse which pulled it where they wanted it. Now they don't need horses, but they NEED 4x4s to tow horse boxes around. The world has gone mad, mad I tell you.;):evil:
 

LLB

Guest
rich p said:
Hilarious. There must be a sh*tload of farms I didn't know about in central Brighton then!!;):biggrin:


And here lies the problem. The people who live in the south east think that what goes on in the south east is applicable to the rest of the country. This just is no the case.
 

LLB

Guest
snorri said:
WTF is all this about horses, all the farmers around here have tractors, and when they did used to have horses, the horses walked everywhere. On the odd occasion that the horse needed a lift, they got the beast into a trailer and yolked it to a fit horse which pulled it where they wanted it. Now they don't need horses, but they NEED 4x4s to tow horse boxes around. The world has gone mad, mad I tell you.;):evil:

The tractors do far more damage to the byways than 4x4s for a kick off, and most roads are unfortunately not safe enough to hack along due to the type and volume of traffic using them.

The whole point of taking a horse to competition is to be competitive. Hack a horse 10/15 miles, and it would be too knackered to give its best.
The 4x4s are the vehicle of choice as many competitions are held in fields (need 4wd for traction), and the towing vehicle needs to be a minimum weight to tow a heavily laden trailer legally - hence my 4x4 weighing just under 2.5 tonnes
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
linfordlunchbox said:
And here lies the problem. The people who live in the south east think that what goes on in the south east is applicable to the rest of the country. This just is no the case.

Thanks for letting me and the other 30million round here think, I'd hate to be left to decide for myself!
If you seriously think that the majority of 4 x 4 owners use them as working vehicles or horse box towers you are more self delusional than I've always thought.
 

LLB

Guest
Well, you live in Brighton (feeder for London), I very much doubt that many of the vehicles around your way are actually working ones (apart from around the racecourse and associated workers)

That said, many boat owners need a heavy vehicle to move them if they are not stored in a marina, as well as the numerous caravan owners who are legally bound to tow with a heavy car !
 

Jaded

New Member
linfordlunchbox said:
And here lies the problem. The people who live in the south east think that what goes on in the south east is applicable to the rest of the country. This just is no the case.

No, you need a much bigger 4x4 in Gloucestershire, because there are more hills. ;)
 

snorri

Legendary Member
linfordlunchbox said:
Well, you live in Brighton (feeder for London), I very much doubt that many of the vehicles around your way are actually working ones

but the 4x4s around your way which tow horse boxes to horsey events are working vehicles??
Horses kept for prancing around a showground, or leaping over artificial fences are not working horses, and the vehicles purchased to tow their horse boxes are not working vehicles.
I am sure no one wants to spoil your horsey fun LLB, but do remember it is fun or self imposed work, not real work.
Anyway, I don't want you upsetting rich p, he is going to need all of his energy and concentration this next couple of weeks;);););)
 
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