What makes you fat?

[MikeG]

I wasn't replying to you

But to this ...
If you don't burn 3,000+ calories a day, you can't expect to consume 3,000+ calories a day without putting on weight. Your body either burns it or it stores it, it doesn't magically disappear into thin air.

Basal metabolic rate is only a measure of how quickly a person burns through calories at rest. It's still burning calories. Therefore, it is "calories out", and absolutely nothing you have said contradicts what either SkipdiverJohn or I said.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Politicians trying to change people's behaviour in a top-down, nanny-state, "we know better than you" manner is doomed to result in a backlash. Working class people like me are the absolute last people who will tolerate being lectured down to by "experts" on how much fat & sugar we should be allowed to have in our food, how much beer we should be limited to every week, or any other aspect of how we live.
All the chattering classes and their political wings are still trying to figure out two years on why millions of ordinary working people like myself voted for Brexit, despite all the "experts" telling us how much better it would be for us to stay in the EU and that instant armageddon would befall us if we dared to vote Out.. They just don't get it; we really don't like being told what to eat, what to drink, what to think, what to do. Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.

 

[Crackle]

And on that note, I'm going to fark off out and buy some cake before Brexit makes it too expensive!

 

[T.M.H.N.E.T]

And on that note, I'm going to fark off out and buy some cake before Brexit makes it too expensive!

Be over in 20 mins( before I need a permit, 6 weeks in quarantine and an armed escort)

 

[MikeG]

........ Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.

Twaddle. Do you go to your doctor when you're ill? Do you go to a scientist when you want to know something about the world around you? Do you go to an architect when you want a building designed? Do you take your pet to a vet when it's ill? Do you get an electrician to sort your wiring out? Do you take your legal dispute to a solicitor?

Right, so don't say stupid things about experts.

 

[FishFright]

Politicians trying to change people's behaviour in a top-down, nanny-state, "we know better than you" manner is doomed to result in a backlash. Working class people like me are the absolute last people who will tolerate being lectured down to by "experts" on how much fat & sugar we should be allowed to have in our food, how much beer we should be limited to every week, or any other aspect of how we live.
All the chattering classes and their political wings are still trying to figure out two years on why millions of ordinary working people like myself voted for Brexit, despite all the "experts" telling us how much better it would be for us to stay in the EU and that instant armageddon would befall us if we dared to vote Out.. They just don't get it; we really don't like being told what to eat, what to drink, what to think, what to do. Expertise has been brought into disrepute and is now reviled and reacted against, rather than being listened to and heeded.

Listen to this man people , then make sure you think the opposite

 

[presta]

Right, so don't say stupid things about experts.

Any of the anti-science brigade who genuinely believe what they peddle are perfectly at liberty to go and live like mediaeval peasant farmers. The reason they don't, by and large, is that they know which side their bread is buttered on.

 

[Edwardoka]

Any of the anti-science brigade who genuinely believe what they peddle are perfectly at liberty to go and live like mediaeval peasant farmers. The reason they don't, by and large, is that they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Bread? BREAD?! There's no bread left. The nanny state experts say that bread is bad for you so I ate ALL of the bread to own the libs also I can't feel my feet any more someone should do something to help me

 

[Dan B]

Basal metabolic rate is only a measure of how quickly a person burns through calories at rest. It's still burning calories. Therefore, it is "calories out", and absolutely nothing you have said contradicts what either SkipdiverJohn or I said.

Er...

First you said that people who claim "my metabolism makes me fat" are jsut making excuses and ignoring the physics, now you're saying that basal metabolic rate is factored into "calories out" - i.e. that it's part of the physics.

To stretch the air crash analogy further than it really admits being stretched, this is the airline blaming the pilot for not pulling back far enough when the stewards and baggage handlers have decided to seat all the passengers and stow all the luggage in the front ten rows.

(I'm hypothyroid. I weigh about a stone more when I'm off my thyroid replacement hormone than when I'm taking it, with little or no difference either to food or exercise regime in either case. And for the record I'm not making excuses for being overweight, because I'm not overweight)

 

[MikeG]

Nevermind.

 

[Alan O]

...people who claim "my metabolism makes me fat" are just making excuses and ignoring the physics...

I've meant to comment on this, based on something I read about some years ago, but I can't find any details. So I'll go on what I remember of it (and on my own limited knowledge).

Some relevant facts (facts as far as I understand them, anyway):

Basal metabolic rate varies.
Different tissues have different basal metabolic rates.
Muscle has a basal metabolic rate several times higher than that of fat (I've seen various estimates).
Various conditions and medications can affect metabolic rates (and can affect weight in other ways, like affecting fluid retention).

The investigation aimed to check the claim, sometimes made by overweight people, that they're fat because they have a slower metabolic rate than other people. What they did was isolate a number of people over a range of BMI measures, who had no known medical conditions and were on no medications that should affect their metabolism.

They measured (as accurately as they could) the total daily kcals in and kcals out for each individual, and had them remain pretty much inactive for a period (I can't remember how long). Food intake was easily controlled, and measuring remaining kcals in excrement was done (I've no idea how). They also measured the total energy actually burned through metabolism - I can't remember how, but I do remember the subjects being in sealed rooms, so maybe they measured CO2 production or something, or maybe they could do calorimetry style heat transfer measurements.

I've no idea what the sample size was or how statistically significant it was, but the main result I remember was that there was no significant variation in the metabolic rates of the subjects outside that expected from their weights and fat percentages. Fatter people had higher total metabolic rates than thinner ones, but completely in line with their weight. They had lower per-kg metabolic rates, but again in line with their higher fat percentage. The evidence suggested that a lower per-kg metabolic rate is caused by having more fat, rather than being the cause of it.

Anyway, my memory might be flawed (and is certainly incomplete), but I thought that was worth sharing.

 

[The Jogger]

I swear by a high carb low fat vegan diet with no oils. Apparently Peter Sagan is onboard with that now.

I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.

 

[Alan O]

I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.

And a friend of mine has been on a very low-fat vegan diet for years (inspired by Dr Esselstyn), and these days he runs around 2,500 miles per year (including several marathons) and is fitter than most people half his age.

I reckon the (not so) secret is to find a reasonably healthy diet that suits you and is one that enables you to keep the kcal balance right, and you'll probably do just fine.

 

[PK99]

I reckon the (not so) secret is to find a reasonably healthy diet that suits you and is one that enables you to keep the kcal balance right, and you'll probably do just fine.

Nail meet head!

Looking at various diets all seem to work by reducing calorie intake & or increasing activity.

MrsPK and I found that 5:2 worked for us - it reduced total calorie intake in already active lives.
D2 can't stand feeling hungry so has lost many pounds by shifting iron in the gym and sensible eating to refuel.

 

[Milzy]

I did that very diet for a year nearly and became ill. It was being promoted by a Dr Esselstyne. No oil and vegan for me was anemia.

It would kill me. My work is very physical and so is my play. Balanced works for me well so I get the enjoyment.