D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Are we now getting bogged down on 2 specific topics, which could it appear warrant their own threads, Rap is Crap? and Tarantino God or Paul Anker?
What single work of creation would you remove from the world?
- Thread starter jefmcg
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
AndyRM
XOXO
- Location
- North Shields
You could start them if you like, though it'll probably be a repeat of much of the discussion already taking place on this thread.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Is that not an Alien Stargate?
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
I think that Dubai thing is quite witty - although it's reminiscent of the Grande Arche at La Défense, and the article suggests that the ethics of the commissioners were extremely shabby (not entirely surprisingly given who they were). But you're right about the Brighton Seafront - that late Victorian pier and 6-lane tarmac highway are completely out of place in a Regency setting.
OP
OP
jefmcg
Guru
FTFM
OP
OP
jefmcg
Guru
Whoosh.
petek
Über Member
- Location
- East Coast UK
Christmas TV schedules. 
swansonj
Guru
Personally, I realised that @srw was affectionately taking the piss, but I couldn't quite decide whether he was affectionately taking the piss out of @User13710 for objecting to a C21 architectural addition whilst not objecting to a C19 architectural addition, or affectionately taking the piss out of himself for caring that a C19 pier is an excresence on a Regency town (and probably unlike me for knowing which century Regency was without having to look it up) (and you'll have to decide for yourself whether that last one is true or me taking the piss out of myself).
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
A bit of all of that, really. The first thing that caught my eye in the photo was the pier, which gave me the idea. Also a bit of taking the piss out of the notion of Brighton as a Regency town - to an occasional visitor it's always seemed a bit of a down-at-heel dive, badly beaten up in the twentieth century. I'm very willing to accept that I've not seen the best bits, and haven't been at my perkiest when I have visited (usually first thing in the morning).
nickyboy
Norven Mankey
- Location
- You want hills? We got hills
Hitchington
Lovely stuff
- Location
- That London
I thought you'd "moved on"?
Hitchington
Lovely stuff
- Location
- That London
"Rap/hip-hop isn't music"
Bollocks it's not...
Bollocks it's not...
winjim
Smash the cistern
We could go right back through the history of rap and hip-hop to answer this, but I'm gonna go with something modern and use a single group as an example which will hopefully go some way to explain the way I feel about rap music and all that it can be.
This year I have been absolutely rinsing Run The Jewels. This is two rappers, Killer Mike and El-P, who also produces, at the top of their game. Seriously, I think they are the best thing to happen to hip-hop in years. They're both in their 40s, both have had good solo careers, but they're making the best music of their lives and they're a great example of how great rap music can be. Their three albums are all available as free downloads and are well worth a listen.
But, to really get the measure of them, I would suggest you watch this interview, recorded last year for Channel 4. It's fifteen minutes but worth it.
Now you've got an idea of who's making the music you can see it in context. So now watch their performance of Nobody Speak, the tune they made with DJ Shadow:
This is the clean version for TV, it's a joke song with joke lyrics but notice at the end how they dedicate it to the victims of the Pulse shooting, with El-P displaying a rainbow heart in solidarity with the gay community.
RTJ albums are always a mix of serious and silly, politics and dick jokes, but as for rap not being poetry, have a listen to Thursday in the Danger Room, a song about death:
Maybe not the greatest poetry in the world, but absolutely heartfelt and not a single "**********er" or "bitch".
If you want to explore charges of misogyny, have a listen to Love Again. I'm not going to post the video because it's very very rude, but at first listen it sounds misogynistic but it's actually a love song, but then twisted round in the last verse (by Gangsta Boo) to subvert notions of misogyny in rap music. So it's a subject they've tackled.
Fancy something more overtly political? Have a listen to, and watch the video for Close Your Eyes (And Count To fark).
Notice how Killer Mike is rapping about killing police and waterboarding prison guards? It should be apparent that this is hyperbole, not actually advocating violence but a comment on state violence against blacks and the racism of the prison system. Notice how this very political song still has its share of dick jokes and fronting.
Now for a song that's purely brag and front, the first song from the first RTJ album, Run The Jewels:
I say it's purely brag and front, but notice how they have their tongues firmly in their cheeks? So when Killer Mike raps about how he "shot that bitch", he's joking about the use of the word "bitch" in rap music, because he's literally talking about a dog.
So rap music can be serious and silly, political and jokey, self aware and ironic, heartfelt and poetic, even all within a single song. And this is just one group, a recent group that I've chosen to make a point, there are loads more that others have and will continue to mention I'm sure. Follow the history back, listen to the music, read the lyrics, understand the context and look below the surface behind the brag and bluster to find real insight and meaning.
Applogies for the monumentally loser length post but I really love this music and wish that its detractors could hear it for what it is. Maybe some of them will give it a go.
But, to really get the measure of them, I would suggest you watch this interview, recorded last year for Channel 4. It's fifteen minutes but worth it.
Now you've got an idea of who's making the music you can see it in context. So now watch their performance of Nobody Speak, the tune they made with DJ Shadow:
This is the clean version for TV, it's a joke song with joke lyrics but notice at the end how they dedicate it to the victims of the Pulse shooting, with El-P displaying a rainbow heart in solidarity with the gay community.
RTJ albums are always a mix of serious and silly, politics and dick jokes, but as for rap not being poetry, have a listen to Thursday in the Danger Room, a song about death:
This is El-P's verse which I know he's particularly proud of, written about a close friend dying of cancer:
Right for a right, wrong for a wrong
This is clearly not life's design
Figure out quickly that nothing gets answered
When you ask the universe why
Life is a journey, to live is to worry
To love is to lose your damn mind
But living's a blessing so I am not stressing
'Cause some of my friends ain't survived
Death's a release but a much bigger beast
Is a living on limited time
Like how do you look in the eyes of a friend
And not cry when you know that they're dying?
How do you feel 'bout yourself when you know that
Sometimes you had wished they were gone?
Not because you didn't love 'em
But just because you felt too weak to be strong
You couldn't bear to see someone
Who prided themselves on the strength to feel weak
The cruelty of randomness, hold it for ransom
That life will not fade in your dreams
You see that they're fighting and know that they're losing
But still you make jokes and you laugh
'Cause you know despite all the sadness
That you better get the good times while they last
Now every new word that they speak
You are already feeling like it’s in the past
And when they all gone you just try to move on
Cause the memory's hurting too bad
Grown up so much and I wonder
Who you'd've become if you stuck for a while
Just know that I love you, good friend
Ain't forget you, and when I remember I smile
This is clearly not life's design
Figure out quickly that nothing gets answered
When you ask the universe why
Life is a journey, to live is to worry
To love is to lose your damn mind
But living's a blessing so I am not stressing
'Cause some of my friends ain't survived
Death's a release but a much bigger beast
Is a living on limited time
Like how do you look in the eyes of a friend
And not cry when you know that they're dying?
How do you feel 'bout yourself when you know that
Sometimes you had wished they were gone?
Not because you didn't love 'em
But just because you felt too weak to be strong
You couldn't bear to see someone
Who prided themselves on the strength to feel weak
The cruelty of randomness, hold it for ransom
That life will not fade in your dreams
You see that they're fighting and know that they're losing
But still you make jokes and you laugh
'Cause you know despite all the sadness
That you better get the good times while they last
Now every new word that they speak
You are already feeling like it’s in the past
And when they all gone you just try to move on
Cause the memory's hurting too bad
Grown up so much and I wonder
Who you'd've become if you stuck for a while
Just know that I love you, good friend
Ain't forget you, and when I remember I smile
Maybe not the greatest poetry in the world, but absolutely heartfelt and not a single "**********er" or "bitch".
If you want to explore charges of misogyny, have a listen to Love Again. I'm not going to post the video because it's very very rude, but at first listen it sounds misogynistic but it's actually a love song, but then twisted round in the last verse (by Gangsta Boo) to subvert notions of misogyny in rap music. So it's a subject they've tackled.
Fancy something more overtly political? Have a listen to, and watch the video for Close Your Eyes (And Count To fark).
Notice how Killer Mike is rapping about killing police and waterboarding prison guards? It should be apparent that this is hyperbole, not actually advocating violence but a comment on state violence against blacks and the racism of the prison system. Notice how this very political song still has its share of dick jokes and fronting.
Now for a song that's purely brag and front, the first song from the first RTJ album, Run The Jewels:
I say it's purely brag and front, but notice how they have their tongues firmly in their cheeks? So when Killer Mike raps about how he "shot that bitch", he's joking about the use of the word "bitch" in rap music, because he's literally talking about a dog.
So rap music can be serious and silly, political and jokey, self aware and ironic, heartfelt and poetic, even all within a single song. And this is just one group, a recent group that I've chosen to make a point, there are loads more that others have and will continue to mention I'm sure. Follow the history back, listen to the music, read the lyrics, understand the context and look below the surface behind the brag and bluster to find real insight and meaning.
Applogies for the monumentally loser length post but I really love this music and wish that its detractors could hear it for what it is. Maybe some of them will give it a go.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
You clearly thought wrong
AndyRM
XOXO
- Location
- North Shields
They won't, but you're absolutely spot on.
Have you heard Meow The Jewels? Total genius, and weirdly it works.
Anyway, my nomination for works of creation that need removed is this.
