What volcanic ash?

[PaulB]

What's the difference between the Icelandic volcano and Cheryl Cole?

The volcano is still blowing Ash.


Iceland's eruption has already hit the ground. I was caught by a black forest gateau, a bag of mushrooms and a frozen loaf. A geezer blew his top and went mad, apparently.



IGMC.

 

[dellzeqq]

to the pilots!

The flight crew had never been trained how to perform the calculations. To be safe they re-ran the numbers three times to be absolutely, positively sure the refuelers hadn't made any mistakes; each time using 1.77 pounds/liter as the specific gravity factor. This was the factor written on the refueler's slip and used on all of the other planes in Air Canada's fleet. The factor the refuelers and the crew should have used on the brand new, all-metric 767 was .8 kg/liter of kerosene.

I'm not so sure.........

 

[Corvette chic]

What's the difference between the Icelandic volcano and Cheryl Cole?

The volcano is still blowing Ash.



IGMC.

Class....

 

[Norm]

I'm wondering about this one, as I don't think that it has ever caused a plane crash, they just lose power until they drop out of the cloud.

I think someone's risk assessment and strategy might be amended if the eruption does go on for much longer.

Colour me prescient but I see that, not only did the French environment minister get onto this same thinking last night but many of the larger European airlines have flown test flights today which show absolutely no damage from flying through this "cloud".

That said, I'd love the planes to be grounded for another couple of months.

Saw a news item somewhere that showed the amount and intensity of sunlight reaching the surface has increased considerably because of the lack of vapour trails. And it's ruddy warm outside today. So warm I can't see why anyone would want to go abroad on holiday... which is kinda ironic really.

 

[hackbike 666]

Class....

It's doing the rounds round the internet and has already been posted here in it's own thread.

https://www.cyclechat.net/

 

[Globalti]

Colour me prescient but I see that, not only did the French environment minister get onto this same thinking last night but many of the larger European airlines have flown test flights today which show absolutely no damage from flying through this "cloud".

That said, I'd love the planes to be grounded for another couple of months.

Saw a news item somewhere that showed the amount and intensity of sunlight reaching the surface has increased considerably because of the lack of vapour trails. And it's ruddy warm outside today. So warm I can't see why anyone would want to go abroad on holiday... which is kinda ironic really.

Freezing up here in Lancs, Norm.

I think the airlines are scared of expensive damage. Didn't somebody post on here that all the aircraft grounded at Thiefrow have the engine intakes covered with red polythene?

 

[Norm]

Freezing up here in Lancs, Norm.

Yes, my sister in law and MIL came down from Formby this afternoon. When they got here, they were baking as they were wearing jumpers and all sorts.

I think the airlines are scared of expensive damage. Didn't somebody post on here that all the aircraft grounded at Thiefrow have the engine intakes covered with red polythene?

I don't think that they are scared at all, or you wouldn't see headlines like Airlines urge flight ban review.

Europe's airlines and airports have called for an immediate reassessment of flight restrictions imposed because of volcanic ash from Iceland.

and

The two airline bodies, ACI Europe and AEA, said: "The eruption of the Icelandic volcano is not an unprecedented event and the procedures applied in other parts of the world for volcanic eruptions do not appear to require the kind of restrictions that are presently being imposed in Europe."

 

[twentysix by twentyfive]

Club Run today was affected by the ash.

The leader couldn't get back from Majorca.


Well that's his excuse - personally I think he hasn't done enough miles yet this year Perhaps he should ride back.

 

[snorri]

Saw a news item somewhere that showed the amount and intensity of sunlight reaching the surface has increased considerably because of the lack of vapour trails. And it's ruddy warm outside today. So warm I can't see why anyone would want to go abroad on holiday... which is kinda ironic really.

Meanwhile, in my part of the country, just when we thought summer was on the way, cold snap returns, fresh snow on the hills this morning, a cold wind blowing all day, roll on the foreign holidays.

 

[Arch]

I'm not sure I would wish to be on a jet that lost power in all engines, even if they re-started at a lower altitude. Have you heard of The Gimli Glider? A great moment in aviation history...it may bring a smile to your faces.

Ladies and Gentlemen, The Gimli Glider...

http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html

Wow.

I have a photo of a De Havilland Rapide my Dad landed, in a similar posture. The note on the back says "I must not land with the brakes on..."

 

[hackbike 666]

The Gimli Glider...I watched a film very similar where they ran out of fuel and the reason being was that when it was loaded fuel on the ground it was supposed to be loaded in pounds but it wasn't.Meaning it had half the fuel it was supposed to have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

Ah I did get the drift of the film...It's on Wiki.

 

[mangaman]

I'm sure the airlines want / need to get flying or they'll go out of business.

Unusually for me I have an Easyjet flight to Nice booked for an academic conference at which I will be expected to speak on Wednesday.

There's no way, even if they allow flights from Tuesday am , Easyjet will run their normal timetable and get me to Nice on Tuesday night. They'll have to prioritise repatriating their passengers from places like Spain. Nice is a small operation for them.

Unfortunately they won't cancel the bleeding flight. Even Ryanair have cancelled all flights till Wednesday. If Easyjet did that I could confirm I can't make the conference and get some money back from the hotel (which needs 24 hrs notice for a partial refund).

I realise this is small beer compared to people trapped in airports for days, but it shows how reliant we are on cheap airlines.

I briefly tried, last Thursday, to get a ticket on a ferry or Eurostar but they were sold out.

Although mildly inconvencienced by this, it shows how such a simple natural phenomenon can reduce the European economy to it's knees.

I notice now the airline lobby are pushing hard for the restrictions to be lifted based on a small number of "test flights". I just hope there is some statistical / scientific rigour at play. Just because Willie Walsh can fly to Cardiff from Heathrow without damage to his plane, does that out-trump the evidence for closing the airspace in the first place?

I doubt it and I'm not keen on being one of the first human guinee pigs

 

[Norm]

... does that out-trump the evidence for closing the airspace in the first place?

What evidence would that be?

The evidence that volcanoes around the rest of the world don't close the same volume of airspace? Or the evidence that every plane which had a problem (caused by flying within tens of miles of the volcano rather than thousands of miles) was able to restart it's engines?

 

[mangaman]

Just thiking beyond this - I can only see 2 scenarios.

1) (most likely) The airline lobby wins the argument and suddenly it's safe to fly despite no change in the "Icelandic cloud of death" as I love to call it, based on, from the media, about 10 flights in Holland/Germany and today 1 in the UK (I don't know if that flight went smoothly).

For us it's the age old question - who do we believe? Personally I believe the airlines have a clear business need to get up and running, whereas the air-traffic controllers are only concerned with safety. I'll be sticking with the NATS website

2) We accept it isn't safe and we have no flights into Europe for potentially some considerable time. In this case as others have argued we'll have to do crazy things like grow our food in season and not expect year round strawberries

I hope number 2 is the case personally - we might have to think seriously about how we exploit foreign countries for staples and how their lives depend on a consistant supply line to us.

 

[mangaman]

What evidence would that be?

The evidence that volcanoes around the rest of the world don't close the same volume of airspace? Or the evidence that every plane which had a problem (caused by flying within tens of miles of the volcano rather than thousands of miles) was able to restart it's engines?

I don't know Norm.

I really have not a clue about all this.

My point, I suppose is that all Northern European air space was closed as soon as the cloud of dust hit must have meant something - airlines went along with it as gospel.

I'm cynical and the whole of Northern Europe closing it's airspace is unprecidented and I think would have to be backed up by expert analysis to the people at NATS and the European equivalent.

I suppose it's trust. I don't see any rational reason for NATS to close airspace unless they think it's a risk - they have nothing to gain but an enermous amount to lose.

It's only today when airlines are getting into trouble financially that they lobby the EU to get the restrictions eased. As people with a huge vested interest I tend to trust their science less than NATS etc with no vested interest.

I freely admit I know nothing about planes or Icelandic volcanoes, but I am a scientist by trade, and if we couldn't fly on Thursday / Friday, why can we now (because KLM and a few people want it). I fear we need more data (maybe some unmanned planes flying up and seeing what's really there? - I don't know)