What's the DfT for?

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dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Seriously. If responsibility for transport was handed over to local authorities and a nationalised rail company would we be worse off?

One word answers won't do. There's a whole raft of considerations. Does the strategic road system serve a purpose? What does the DfT bring to rail projects? Might motorways be sold off for housing? Your thoughts please...
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
As no one else has dared answer, here's what first popped into my mind....

http://www.yes-minister.com/ymseas3b.htm#YM 3.5

(page doesn't work well on Safari, but you'll get the gist)
 

domd1979

Veteran
Location
Staffordshire
dellzeqq said:
Seriously. If responsibility for transport was handed over to local authorities and a nationalised rail company would we be worse off?

As far as I can tell - no, we wouldn't be worse off.... Most of the DfT aren't in touch with reality and a lot of them lack any experience in the practicalities of transport planning/operation. They have even less comprehension of the world outside the M25....

One word answers won't do. There's a whole raft of considerations. Does the strategic road system serve a purpose? What does the DfT bring to rail projects? Might motorways be sold off for housing? Your thoughts please...

As far as rail goes, we would be much better off with a nationalised BR, and DfT being stopped from micro-managing everything because they don't have an understanding of what they're micro managing nor are they consistent. If you ask a DfT rail person what role the rail network should be playing as a transport mode they don't know. If you ask them why the level of service specified for two comparable places are completely different, they don't know. There is no shortage of ineptitude - Pendolino lengthening, completely buggered that one; IEP (intercity express - new high speed trains) procurement - over specified and insanely complicated; electrification was apparently a waste of time a couple of years back but then they realised they were on their own in thinking that.

"Modal agnoticism" - wtf is that?! DfT people like that one.

Then I could start on concessionary bus passes....

...or performance indicators.

Oh, and I was once asked by someone there if Staffordshire was near County Durham...
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Dom

I went to a couple of meetings organised by the Transport Planning Network. Now, accepting that the planners were worse than the transport mob, it still struck me as odd that

- the meeting felt like some radical plot to overthrow the existing regime at the DfT
- the meeting was incredibly conservative - the two most radical people there were speaking on behalf of property developers
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
I've seen enough trigger words to set me off now, although I think the Yes Minister plot is still a useful summary.

I can't speak for the DfT, but I have some experience of working with another ministry much in the news of late. It sounds as if they have -synergy-.

Lets start with the Civil Servants....

The role of the civil service within a ministry is to implement the legislation, policies and other business for the government of the day. It's there to provide an element of independence and continuity within a system that can in theory change our rulers every couple of years.

With increasing overt or implicit privatisation of many services, the role of the civil servant has changed. Instead of being responsible for service delivery, they have become responsible for overseeing those who do deliver, in theory to ensure that the taxpayer is receiving value for money. Unfortunately the wheels turn slowly and many organisations and individuals within the civil service don't understand their changed role. They mistake interference for oversight and micro-management for effective management. Ultimately, they're frightened of looking irrelevant but don't have the skills or remit to become effective.

As the civil service is an agent of continuity, the way it performs its business is largely process-driven, rather than results-based. Because of this, it attracts people who are by nature conservative with a small 'c' and usually not of an innovative or creative bent. A civil servant will gain promotion and a comfortable pension by following procedure. As soon as a civil servant is called upon to make a significant or difficult decision, they know that a wrong choice may scupper their climb up the greasy pole. Couple that with a culture that doesn't promote innovative thinking or attract those capable of it, and you have a recipe for stagnation.

I know many civil servants and some of them are clever, innovative and driven by results. They are mostly unhappy in their jobs.

Procurement now.....

In my own particular industry and back in the dawn of time, there was something called cost-plus. A ministry would ask for something, a manufacturer would try and make it (and occasionally succeed, but more often than not piss the taxpayers' money up the wall) and then get paid however much they'd spent, plus a little bit extra.

This approach was expensive, open to abuse and encouraged profligacy by the manufacturers. So the government of the day decided to change things, but change them so radically that they effectively crippled the procurement process. In essence, the government tried to transfer nearly all the risk for any procurement on to the supplier while (and this is key) retaining a disproportionate amount of control over how that procurement might be delivered. It's like walking into a restaurant, standing over the chef while he or she cooks you steak giving instructions and then refusing to pay because the streak was 'rubbery'.

This situation persists today, and it seems from Dom's description of the railways that the approach has caught on. Certainly its not a bad summary of rail privatisation. Ultimately the suppliers (not entirely innocent themselves) still have to make a profit. Any procurement process becomes bogged down (ref civil servant mentality above) in a battle between the supplier and the government, with each believing that they're being screwed over by the other. Once the contract has been signed, the supplier will try everything legal and beyond to manage their own risk, usually at the expense of the end user. Meanwhile, the government and civil service will often step in, still believing they have the right to tinker without having to take any responsibility for the cost or consequences of their fiddling.

And all the while the money-clock ticks over. Not an effective way of making stuff happen.

Finally the Government....

I've never been to P&L and I'm not going to start now, so I'll keep this one short and point out that I mean any government of recent vintage. Today, the country's perception of the government is driven largely by the media. The popular media is a very dirty lens through which to view the goings on of government, and it's controlled by very few, very powerful individuals. These individuals are generally of conservative outlook and have many vested interests. Any radical thinking by a government that steps away from the narrow world view promoted by the popular media, such as a wholesale change in transport policy, will be stillborn. Even if a government had the motivation (and I don't believe the present or future lot do) there is no benefit to the government to make serious decisions about, in this case, transport because it will be presented to the people in such a way as to damage the their chances of re-election. At best, we get tinkering that keeps below the media radar. Only when a government is motivated by political dogma that aligns with the interests of the media owners does something happen. Like rail privatisation. <irony>Chapeaux</>

So to summarise, we have a government and civil service whose best interests are served by inaction and a procurement mechanism for public works that cannot function properly within a capitalist society.


I think that counts as 'not a one word answer'.
 
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dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
Bollo said:
I think that counts as 'not a one word answer'.
can't argue with that. Food for thought, though.

My take on the DfT is that its objectives are linear and out of date. Put simply it sees its job as providing the wherewithall for people and goods to get from A to B. That's it. Land use, sustainability, the congeniality of towns, the shrinking of the countryside, the growth of exurbia, none of that matters. South Essex, most of Warwickshire, almost all of Surrey and half of Kent are suburbs, and those suburbs have been generated by roads. There's a kind of recognition that roads should not be intrusive, but that boils down to EIAs which rely on visual mitigation. There's absolutely no understanding that if you build a road, like any of a thousand roads that have been built in the last fifty years, you lose a degree of separation, and, by extending commutes and delivery routes, erase the difference between countryside and towns. Similarly there is no recognition that strategic roads within towns and cities are streets, other than as an opportunity to build a bypass (which, in any case, is impossible in the suburbs of large towns and cities).

Getting on for 40 years ago the Homes not Roads campaign scored a tremendous success in squashing the London orbital idea - but that success was a one-off. We're still covering landscape, urban and rural, with tarmac.
 

Bollo

Failed Tech Bro
Location
Winch
dellzeqq said:
can't argue with that. Food for thought, though.

Thanks for taking the time to read it. I'll confess that I've painted the scene with a broad brush, but I'm close enough in my work to the first two thirds of my babbling to defend what I've said.

I think my ranting supports your point. Without obvious public support, the political parties don't have the guts and the civil servants don't have the imagination to do anything different from what's been done before. For a government, road building is easy and relatively risk free, both in project and financial terms. Compare that to the risks and costs of the alternatives and no government is going to stick its neck out that far. I think the DfT do know all that you've said, its just that they're paralysed by fear of the consequences if they ever acknowledged it, or worse still acted on that knowledge.

Ultimately the great British public should bear much of the blame. We bought into the American dream of a car-centric society with only about a 40th of the land mass to play with, and most of the population stuffed into about a quarter of that.
 

byegad

Legendary Member
Location
NE England
I agree DfT is a pretty strange organisation. However I happen to know a local authority roads officer. He doesn't drive, or cycle and uses buses and trains for all his transport needs being too tight to use a taxi.

He is the most contrary guy I have ever met. I know why Durham County Council has some of the weirdest 'cycle facilities' and lousy roads I've ever seen. He's contributing to the design of both.

Now put me in charge and we'll soon have the worlds first Veloway. Called the V1 there will be Motorists Alight signs wherever a road crosses it as drivers will be expected to push their vehicle across the Veloway. Not a problem for car and light van drivers but lorry drivers may have a bit of a problem! Buses will need to be full so passengers can all help the driver shove it over the Veloway.

Unreasonable? Not really, just look at Sedgefield Hospitals entrance and its cycling FARCILITY!!!
 
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