White van driver teaches me a lesson

[yello]

It is his impatience, his willingness to risk my life and his aggression that is at fault here.

I do agree with that. 100%. Whatever you may or may not have done mitigates that.

 

[tdr1nka]

Why is it only riders that use terms such as 'primary' and 'secondary' that come on here to regale us of their near misses? I'd never even heard of the term until joining this forum a few months back.

Dave.

Must be time for a mention of Cyclecraft methinks?

With the rise in cycling and the obviously wide range in styles of riding I see in London these days, I'm begging to think if any City is serious in making headway with intergrating and ingraciating cyclists with other road users maybe it would be in everyone's interest there should be a condensed edition of Cyclecraft issued free with every bicycle purchased?

I'm just off to write to Boris with that very suggestion!

 

[Wolf04]

It was a stupid ill conceived overtake.
You shoud not have hit the van, it is asking for the situation to esculate.
The driver should not have then agressively used his vehicle as a weapon to "teach you a lesson".

 

[BentMikey]

Was that aimed at me Mikey? I reckon I've been pretty fair and my parting comment was that on balance, the WVM was in the wrong.

Dave.

No, it was a general comment. I did see your WVM to blame comment, but this above sounds much worse. "On balance"? Come on, Magnatom did nothing wrong at all, it's very unfair to cast any blame towards him at all.

 

[BentMikey]

It's very hard, that split second decision to let them go, or to own the lane temporarily. What I've found works for me is to do it earlier and more assertively with better signalling, but then often to point out the hazard so the driver realises. I also tend to make an obvious effort to help them pass me as soon as it's safe. The result is that for many of the impatient drivers, their reaction gets converted into a thank you.

I doubt it would have helped with the knob jockey Magnatom filmed here though. IMO.

 

[magnatom]

It was a stupid ill conceived overtake.
You shoud not have hit the van, it is asking for the situation to esculate.
The driver should not have then agressively used his vehicle as a weapon to "teach you a lesson".

I didn't hit it, my fingers just made contact. It was instinctive as the van seemed to be getting closer.

 

[Wolf04]

What I've found works for me is to do it earlier and more assertively with better signalling, but then often to point out the hazard so the driver realises.

I've been doing this since you suggested it in a previous thread. I've got to say I seem to be getting a lot more respect indicating that I'm in primary because there's a dirty great big trough in the secondary area and not just to slow them all down.
Pete

 

[Wolf04]

I didn't hit it, my fingers just made contact. It was instinctive as the van seemed to be getting closer.

Fair enough, as I said it was his fault anyway. It just appeared he was responding to you slapping the van apologies.
Pete

 

[magnatom]

It's very hard, that split second decision to let them go, or to own the lane temporarily. What I've found works for me is to do it earlier and more assertively with better signalling, but then often to point out the hazard so the driver realises. I also tend to make an obvious effort to help them pass me as soon as it's safe. The result is that for many of the impatient drivers, their reaction gets converted into a thank you.

I doubt it would have helped with the knob jockey Magnatom filmed here though. IMO.

Aye, should have been more assertive. That's one of my faults, often I am not assertive enough. I say that peoples negative comments on my cycling don't have an effect. I wonder if they do. I have a feeling that subconsciously I might be a little less assertive because of the 'primary position haters'. Maybe. Dunno.

I'll be more assertive at that roundabout from now on when there is traffic on the other side of the road. When there isn't there is more space so secondary is fine. I'll see how it goes.

 

[Origamist]

I can understand how, looking at the footage from the comfort of a desk, that some could suggest that I pull over and let him past, however, at the time that did not seem like a reasonable option, and until I got close to the pinch point, it did not seem necessary. I was not to know that he would react that way.

If I was to pull over, every time someone threatened to overtake here, it would be every third day (at a guess). That is probably how often I safely negotiate situations like that. So I really don't think I did anything wrong (ignoring the letter of the law!) or that should have particularly upset him. It is his impatience, his willingness to risk my life and his aggression that is at fault here.

Not getting at anyone, just explaining myself.

A pinch point, an impatient WVM and a cycist towards the centre of the road - an axis of danger/possible retribution.

The TRL report "Drivers' perceptions of Cyclists" highlights the problem you faced:

The study finding that drivers tend to blame cyclists for the difficulties they experience when encountering road narrowing suggests that certain highway features may increase tensions between the two types of user.​

Measures that deliberately require cyclists to obstruct traffic in order to produce a traffic calming effect should be avoided. The strategies adopted by some cyclists to deliberately hold up drivers until the cyclist believes it is safe for them to pass are likely to provoke particular hostility. Designs that require such behaviour are likely to cause particular frustration to drivers.​

No shoot!​

 

[magnatom]

Fair enough, as I said it was his fault anyway. It just appeared he was responding to you slapping the van apologies.
Pete

No, it was a reasonable point. Slapping for the sake of it is not helpful. However, as I made only a small amount of contact I doubt he would have noticed.

I never even made any hand gestures at him apart from lifting my arm up in a big shrug. I'm learning not to signal them over to the side of the road.

 

[Nigeyy]

I also have to say that Magnatom seems to have certainly more close calls than me.... but:

-he cycles in an urban environment compared to my more suburban/back road commute
-he's highly likely to put many more miles on a bike in a year than me (a sad 2,000-3,000 miles as I won't cycle in the winter)

put those together and it's little wonder. Can't really give an opinion on road positioning as I wasn't there and I've found that video can be very misleading (certainly with depth perception), let alone not being used to the environment.

And yes, it looked to me like the WVM was a right t*at.

 

[dodgy]

No, it was a general comment. I did see your WVM to blame comment, but this above sounds much worse. "On balance"? Come on, Magnatom did nothing wrong at all, it's very unfair to cast any blame towards him at all.

On balance because I wasn't there, only Magna was.

Dave.

 

[magnatom]

A pinch point, an impatient WVM and a cycist towards the centre of the road - an axis of danger/possible retribution.

The TRL report "Drivers' perceptions of Cyclists" highlights the problem you faced:

The study finding that drivers tend to blame cyclists for the difficulties they experience when encountering road narrowing suggests that certain highway features may increase tensions between the two types of user.

Measures that deliberately require cyclists to obstruct traffic in order to produce a traffic calming effect should be avoided. The strategies adopted by some cyclists to deliberately hold up drivers until the cyclist believes it is safe for them to pass are likely to provoke particular hostility. Designs that require such behaviour are likely to cause particular frustration to drivers.​

No shoot!​

Indeed. Pinch points are not particularly helpful, especially here where, coming off a roundabout I would be wanting to take a more appropriate secondary position, but I am actually forced to be more central.

I'm not sure how that road could be redesigned though, as it is there to allow parking further along.

 

[magnatom]

I also have to say that Magnatom seems to have certainly more close calls than me.... but:

-he cycles in an urban environment compared to my more suburban/back road commute
-he's highly likely to put many more miles on a bike in a year than me (a sad 2,000-3,000 miles as I won't cycle in the winter)

put those together and it's little wonder. Can't really give an opinion on road positioning as I wasn't there and I've found that video can be very misleading (certainly with depth perception), let alone not being used to the environment.

And yes, it looked to me like the WVM was a right t*at.

Actually, I probably do a similar number of miles to you (I cycle about 50 miles a week all year round).

Part of the problem is that a lot of cyclists in Glasgow do gutter cycle. There is little cycle training here. So when car drivers see me taking my more assertive road position they get grumpy and think I am doing something wrong.

However, I will continue to take my more assertive positions, because it provides me with escape routes, should I need them. In fact, in this video I always had a way out, or could brake in time. Had I cycled like some do here, in the gutter and swinging out at the pinch point, I think my options would have been significantly reduced!