Who's at fault?

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Rubber Bullets

Senior Member
Location
Torbay
Today's ride home, I'm behind another cyclist coming up to a red light here:

http://g.co/maps/gvv4m

He goes through the red light and stops leaning against the railings on the corner, I stay in the box.

Now this is a complex junction, and is often the cause of problems, and tonight was no exception. If you move the camera forwards (the weather improves bizarrely) and you will see that there are 6 roads in all coming into and/or out of this junction (one is one way out of it, and another is one way into it, the others are all 2 way). As we sit at the red light the road immediately to our left, Falkland Road,has a green light, but Walnut Road does too, and the amount of traffic, and the direction it is flowing in, means that the cars out of Falkland Road pile into the junction, but have no way out.

So as the lights change to green for us there are 3 cars backed up, the first of which is slap bang in the middle of the junction, and the two behind it are backed up towards Falkland Road, but all have crossed the white line. As the lights change my fellow rider sets off straight towards the cars in front of us, as do I but at a rather lower speed, the front 2 cars have managed to clear the junction, but the 3rd, a Land Rover Discovery, hasn't and the other cyclist rides across in front of him. He stands on his horn and starts making gestures etc. I was going slowly enough to let him across, as was the car behind me, but I was irritated by his attitude and so I did shout 'it's a red light' at him, to which he replied 'I'd already crossed the white line, you f*cking tw*t', and drove off.

Now to be fair he had a point, about the white line, not I hope the other bit, and I really shouldn't have got involved with other peoples arguments, but it does raise the question of whether he did have the right to move through the junction when his light was red.

At the point that the lights changed the front car had no choice, to have stayed where they were would have caused chaos, the one behind that may have been able to make the same claim, but it would have been pushing the point, the guy at the back, though probably 2 or 3 car lengths beyond the line, wasn't in anyone's way, and by the time he did pass in front of the traffic from our road it was well after our light had gone green.

I would love to hear people opinions on this, and to know what the law says. Is the biggest problem here the distance that all the stop lines are back from the junction?

RB
 

Maz

Guru
Too confusing for me, all that. Don't know who's right or wrong. I would avoid speaking to drivers if at all possible.
I suggest you read this book if you haven't already...:thumbsup:
513ARMBHS0L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 

simon.r

Person
Location
Nottingham
I've been in the same situation as the Land Rover a few times as a driver and I wait where I am until the lights change again. It's uncomfortable, you feel a bit marooned and it can cause a problem for pedestrians, but I reckon better to stay put than carry on when other traffic is expecting a clear run as their lights are on green.

Of course, before anyone else says it, I accept that it's bad driving to get caught in that position in the first place - you really should stay behind the line until you're confident of clearing the junction on your phase of the green lights.
 
Purely through common sense, if he wasn't in the way and the other queue (yours) was already moving, I'd say he should have stayed where he was rather than cutting through a line of traffic he knows has a green.
 
OP
OP
Rubber Bullets

Rubber Bullets

Senior Member
Location
Torbay
Sorry, I do get a bit wordy sometimes :sad:

I was quite happy with my cycling, I could see the problem and avoided it, it's just my mouth I wasn't so happy with.

RB
 
OP
OP
Rubber Bullets

Rubber Bullets

Senior Member
Location
Torbay
Thanks Simon, and CC. Yes I've been in that same position too, and you do feel a bit of a numpty, but just ploughing on through going 'the light was green when I started' isn't enough.

CC, is that a legal point of view? Would this be one of those slightly grey areas?

RB
 

eddiemee

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure of the official procedure for such roundabouts, but if they are very busy and queues are likely to build up on the roundabout I tend to treat them like box junctions, i.e. in this particular case I would not drive beyond the white line until I was sure I could exit the roundabout. I cycle over a similarly busy roundabout near Hatfield and my exit frequently gets blocked by cars that have gone through a green light only to stop immediately and in the middle of the roundabout. The inconvenience I don't mind, but it creates an extra hazard as other drivers then pull unpredictable manouevres to get around the blockage.
 

400bhp

Guru
Today's ride home, I'm behind another cyclist coming up to a red light here:

http://g.co/maps/gvv4m

He goes through the red light and stops leaning against the railings on the corner, I stay in the box.

Don't understand. Is that:

a: He goes through the red light after he stopped leaning against the railing.

b: He goes past the red signal and stops before crossing the junction and leans against the railings at the corner of the crossroad.

c: something else?
 

400bhp

Guru
Sh1t happens.

Move on.
 

400bhp

Guru
I'm not sure of the official procedure for such roundabouts, but if they are very busy and queues are likely to build up on the roundabout I tend to treat them like box junctions, i.e. in this particular case I would not drive beyond the white line until I was sure I could exit the roundabout. I cycle over a similarly busy roundabout near Hatfield and my exit frequently gets blocked by cars that have gone through a green light only to stop immediately and in the middle of the roundabout. The inconvenience I don't mind, but it creates an extra hazard as other drivers then pull unpredictable manouevres to get around the blockage.

1. It's not a roundabout.

2. You are too conservative. Do what you do when there is a box junction. Keep the traffic flowing.
 

jugglingphil

Senior Member
Location
Nottingham
Most drivers will continue once they have passed the white-line, some will stop.
Disco driver and the other cyclists were both being selfish, which resulted in confrontation. Lucky for the cyclist he only received a horn and not a couple of tons of motor on top of him.
Sounds like you did everything right, except get involved:smile:.
You could bring up with council/MP, highlighting example of poor road layout which can easily put users at greater risk, although the only thing likely to happen is signal phases being altered.
 
CC, is that a legal point of view? Would this be one of those slightly grey areas?

RB

Nope it's a personal point of view only. Its is indeed a grey area, I'm not aware of a rule in this scenario. If its a common problem, perhaps the local authority should consider making it a yellow box junction and removing any doubt!
 

jonny jeez

Legendary Member
Today's ride home, I'm behind another cyclist coming up to a red light here:

http://g.co/maps/gvv4m

If you move the camera forwards (the weather improves bizarrely)
not just the weather...the entire season changes! it turns from a wet summers day to a sunny spring morning.

Google send their cars out to recover lots of miles at different times so its not that bizarre really.

as for the right wrong...I got a bit lost sorry.

best to just move on and let it go I think
 

Jezston

Über Member
Location
London
That junction looks like an effing nightmare.

Any reason it couldn't be turned into a roundabout? Hard to judge scale from the super wide-angle google streetview shots.

Maybe get a petition going?
 
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