Why I hate RLJ, pavement cyclists etc

[Terminator]

Haven't come across a set of lights that I would have to ignore although there must be many as I see them ignored every day.

 

[Tynan]

never seen lights either that have to be jumped for he sake of safety, there's always a way to deal with them safely, even if it's an alternative route

 

[nethalus]

Hi Folks,

As you probably know I have been having a 'discussion' with some bus drivers on another forum. I gave up a while back as they didn't want to listen to reasoned argument. I've been keeping an eye on the thread though and this was just posted:

Magnatom. Your representations to bus companies RE: operation "show cyclists more respect" is admirable, but flawed. If you are the type of cyclist who rides a well maintained vehicle, wears reflective clothing, abides by the highway code etc. You have every right to flag up the errors of motorists round about you who don't.

However, MOST cyclists that we bus drivers see on the road every day have downright contempt for the highway code, and therefore, it is very difficult for the "good" cyclist to demand greater respect from us on the road. If more cyclists show that they are making an effort, then those around them may do likewise.

This makes for some interesting reading:
http://www.yes-but.net/cycling_is_1dangerous.html

Oh dear. We have no chance with attitudes like this. It would appear that this confirms that we do all get tarred with the same brush and that RLJ's etc do have an effect on us all. Is there a way to counter this attitude? Why should I have to suffer because of idiots who don't obey the rules.

Of course it is a misrepresentation as cyclists are probably no more likely to flout the rules of the road than any other road user. For example how many cars keep to the speed limit? (I can't claim the high ground here!) How many jump red lights, drive without insurance etc. Yet cyclists still get the most stick. I think the CTC need to hire some serious PR agents!!

And I am not even going to mention anything about the web site he has directed me too

I don't think that what The Driver said was unreasonable. I think it's a case with a lot of things, good cyclists are let down by bad ones. Unfortuntely there is no way of stopping any idiot getting a bike and riding it how they damn well like (I suppose you could argue the same with a car, but a car being driven badly or erratically is easier to spot than a cycle.)
I don't think it's a case that people didn't listen to you on the bus drivers forum, I think some probably did and were perhaps even influenced by what you said (there are a lot of non posters on there). The trouble with that forum is it's very much like a bus driver's canteen (don't know if you've ever been in one!) A place where they sort of let their hair down, rant, chat or act daft. Trying to get a work related topic through is a bit like, in a way, a clergyman trying to preach in a pub!

 

[domtyler]

Unfortuntely there is no way of stopping any idiot getting a bike and riding it how they damn well like (I suppose you could argue the same with a car, but a car being driven badly or erratically is easier to spot than a cycle.)

Having spent quite a few hours on the roads today in London I can say with conviction that there are far more terrible drivers out there than cyclists. Mind you the only cyclists I saw were total idiots too, but they only numbered about two or three.

 

[nethalus]

I've been on the recieving end of bad driving when cycling, many moons ago I might add. Was coming round a bend on a oneway system and car came so close to me that the back wheel of his car actually rubbed against the front wheel of my bike. He left me absolutely no room what so ever, as I was squeezed right up against the kerb. Not sure if it was just pure thoughtlessness on the car drivers behalf or he was just being a nasty b*st*rd!

 

[Terminator]

How ironic tonight after finishing work in South West London at about a quarter past one am and leaving for home at half past one am,apart from having a horrific ride back as I got nearer home I became aware of gangs of people all over the place.On approaching a set of lights as well as a gang of about ten people with beer cans in their hands I decided that it was probably not safe to stop at those lights under those circumstances.

I never thought I would find a reason.

That was not a nice ride back and for the first time I felt very uneasy about being on Britains streets.

Nice one the goverment.

 

[col]

How ironic tonight after finishing work in South West London at about a quarter past one am and leaving for home at half past one am,apart from having a horrific ride back as I got nearer home I became aware of gangs of people all over the place.On approaching a set of lights as well as a gang of about ten people with beer cans in their hands I decided that it was probably not safe to stop at those lights under those circumstances.

I never thought I would find a reason.

That was not a nice ride back and for the first time I felt very uneasy about being on Britains streets.

Nice one the goverment.

Its a bad sign of how things are isnt it?Its an all too familiar feeling now i think,feeling uneasy on the streets.

 

[P.H]

All this seems to follow the usual perceptions, cyclist as their own worse enemy, giving motorists all the ammunition...and then you visit somewhere where cycling is far more popular and you realise its all complete nonsense.
Probably the most undisciplined cycling I've seen in Europe is in Amsterdam, RLJ, pavement riding, riding against the flow of traffic. You don't have to strand long on a street corner to see it all, yet you don't see the same irritation and abuse from motorists, and cyclists have a lower accident rate.
The car is such a status symbol in British culture and the bike seen as so inferior that it's an affront to a motorist when you make better progress, regardless of whether that's by legal means or otherwise - try shouldering your bike and running through a red light (perfectly legal) - I'll bet you'll get just as much abuse as if you'd ridden through. I got shouted at for overtaking a line of stationery cars and pulling in when they started moving, what's wrong with that?
The difference in Amsterdam is that todays motorist is likely to be a cyclist tomorrow, tolerance comes form understanding. The only way cycling conditions will improve is by getting more people to cycle. This is what we should spend our time and effort on rather than beating each other up over minor infringements of the Highway Code.

 

[Terminator]

With my shift work I know that won't be the last time I have to encounter that although I will have a better idea of what I will have to encounter.I stopped at a set of traffic lights beforehand and was aware of three people looking at me from across the street.I thought sod this for a game of soldiers.

 

[Cab]

I don't think that what The Driver said was unreasonable. I think it's a case with a lot of things, good cyclists are let down by bad ones.

While this is true, that doesn't excuse anyone who generalises about cyclists based on the behaviour of the bad minority. No excuse for that at all. That we're even having a discussion like this is testament to how utterly bad many motorists are in this respect. Yet you don't find us here saying that all motorists are bad. Not even in jest.

Unfortuntely there is no way of stopping any idiot getting a bike and riding it how they damn well like (I suppose you could argue the same with a car, but a car being driven badly or erratically is easier to spot than a cycle.)

Yes, there is. We're bound by laws too, and a cyclist endangering others will get nicked (thats if they don't get killed). Something that doesn't happen with cyclists though is that no one says 'you passed, you're now okay to go out on your own', which means that you don't have a bit of paper to give you the false impression you're not a danger to others.

I take issue with the claim that a bad motorist is easier to spot. Look out at a motorway one day, with everyone doing 80mph plus. Everyone is breaking the law, everyone is increasing risk for others, increasing the amount of noise and pollution produced, they're all bad motorists. Yet, strangely, we seem to have a blind spot for that... Odd, isn't it?

I don't think it's a case that people didn't listen to you on the bus drivers forum, I think some probably did and were perhaps even influenced by what you said (there are a lot of non posters on there). The trouble with that forum is it's very much like a bus driver's canteen (don't know if you've ever been in one!) A place where they sort of let their hair down, rant, chat or act daft. Trying to get a work related topic through is a bit like, in a way, a clergyman trying to preach in a pub!

Oh, cut it out. Joking about trying to kill cyclists in a public forum is inexcusable and utterly abhorrent. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Its sick, and if you're part of that sickness then you should be treated with the same contempt.

 

[bianco]

While this arguement will go on I think everybody hates other kinds of people who do the same things as them.

When I get on a bus (very rarely I admit) I get so annoyed by the chav sitting at the back listening to his phone music tssk boom tssk tssk boom etc, or the elderly lady staring at me disgustingly for having a shaven head without fear of looking nosey.

When I'm walking as a ped, I get annoyed by those who drink cans of lager on the street and those who let the dog poop without cleaning.

When I'm a passenger in a car (medically not allowed to operate heavy machinery) I get annoyed how close others drive and the relaxation of speed limits amongst drivers only slowing for police or cameras.


What I'm trying to say very poorly is that scum/idiots/selfish people infiltrate everything and every mode of transport, job sector, whatever so because this is a cycle forum I think magnatom as a bloody good right to moan.

If there was a dog walkers forum I'm sure they'd be complaining about other dog walkers not cleaning up giving them a bad name, and I'm sure older people moan about the younger generation being a let down to them etc.....

I think this post will be fantastic to discourage other cyclists/POBs from being stupid, ignorant, unlawful and dangerous, but drivers etc won't bother reading it.

 

[nethalus]

Oh, cut it out. Joking about trying to kill cyclists in a public forum is inexcusable and utterly abhorrent. You know it, I know it, we all know it. Its sick, and if you're part of that sickness then you should be treated with the same contempt.[/quote]

Oh come off it, only one person made such a joke and you assume we all think like that? I think with a lot of you cyclists you go a bit OTT when it comes to anyone criticising you or disagreeing with you. Notice you ignored my other coment compleatly, the one about being done wrong to when cycling.
I mean there were around 5 pages on this forum of people saying nasty personal things about me, suggesting that I should be sacked from my job and being rude about my videos on YouTube (which I know are enjoyed by my friends, aquaintences and fellow enthusiasts) before I came on here. When I talked about Magnatom's video initially on Bloodbus (before he joined), there were no insults directed at him personally, just genralisations. No one suggested I should find out who his employer is and report him to them, no one suggested that I should email him with my thoughts about his attitude!
A little fairness please!

 

[nethalus]

Yes, there is. We're bound by laws too, and a cyclist endangering others will get nicked (thats if they don't get killed). Something that doesn't happen with cyclists though is that no one says 'you passed, you're now okay to go out on your own', which means that you don't have a bit of paper to give you the false impression you're not a danger to others.

I take issue with the claim that a bad motorist is easier to spot. Look out at a motorway one day, with everyone doing 80mph plus. Everyone is breaking the law, everyone is increasing risk for others, increasing the amount of noise and pollution produced, they're all bad motorists. Yet, strangely, we seem to have a blind spot for that... Odd, isn't it?

What I meant by bad car drivers being easier to spot is that someone speeding is more likely to be caught by a speed camera, or if they jump a red like they can be caught by a red light camera, or be spotted by a police patrol. Also the results of bad car driving are usually far more catastrophic than bad cycle riding, and thus more likely to appear in the news.
I have seen a cyclist get a telling off by a policeman for jumping a red light. The idiot did it at a pelican crossing. The copper was going in the opposite direction. The copper leaned out of his van and shouted: "Oi you, RED MEANS STOP!"
The cyclist very sheepisly appologised.
By the way I recently got put through the Smith System course at work, which is designed to improve drivers awarness and reduce the risk of accidents. It's a good system and I find it an enourmous help. It teaches you to keep your eyes moving and be aware of as much as possible, so you are less likely to miss cyclists sneaking up on your inside or you'll be able to predict a pedstrian is about to step off the pavement, or a taxi pulling out and prepare your actions in good time. It also has a few added perks, like paying less car insurance.

 

[RANDOM]

Up here it looks as if our drivers are going to advance driving which is something i have been keen to do for a long time.

 

[RANDOM]

I take issue with the claim that a bad motorist is easier to spot. Look out at a motorway one day, with everyone doing 80mph plus. Everyone is breaking the law, everyone is increasing risk for others, increasing the amount of noise and pollution produced, they're all bad motorists. Yet, strangely, we seem to have a blind spot for that... Odd, isn't it?


Oh i see cab your just as bad as the rest who tar people with the same brush,i trust you have nothing better to do than stand over a motorway with a speed gun i may add because thier is no way you can know for sure every one is doing 80 plus.Get off your high horse there are a lot of safe drivers out thier.