MacB
Lover of things that come in 3's
- Location
- Farnborough, Hampshire
and another for the road Morph pump, re tyres themselves I've limited experience. But I've been looking keenly at the Marathon Supreme as a contender.
Wide 700c tyres
- Thread starter Percy
- Start date
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Thanks all - good to see this place is still lively (been dormant for a while).
Interesting comments - Paul Hewitt actually recommended Rigida Sputniks as an alternative this time. I think I might try them, with an XT hub again, and go for a larger tyre - 38 or maybe 42. Seven responses and no one has yet to come out with the '26" wheel is much stronger' response - I'm impressed!
Seems Schwalbe tyres are still the go to for durability - I bought a set of Marathon Plus just before I left for the long tour, on the back of everyone's comments, and couldn't get them on my rims - nor could the LBS! Stuck with a set of Continental Top Tour in the end, to begin with, which were replaced with whatever was handy while I was away. Maybe I'll give Schwalbes another go.
The Sun Rhyno's were recommended to me by Hewitt at the time - he said they were the strongest on the market. Seems he was right - they're stronger than an XT Hub! But yes, that does seem to be his opinion having looked at the damage - I quote: "If (the Sun Rhyno Rim) has contributed to the hub failure, it has maybe done so due to the rigidity and weight of the rim, there is very little give in anything and the wheel would fail at the weakest point ie. in this case the hub." I'll stick an image of the hub on this post, as people seem to be interested.
Will also look at pumps - thanks for the recommendations.
Interesting comments - Paul Hewitt actually recommended Rigida Sputniks as an alternative this time. I think I might try them, with an XT hub again, and go for a larger tyre - 38 or maybe 42. Seven responses and no one has yet to come out with the '26" wheel is much stronger' response - I'm impressed!
Seems Schwalbe tyres are still the go to for durability - I bought a set of Marathon Plus just before I left for the long tour, on the back of everyone's comments, and couldn't get them on my rims - nor could the LBS! Stuck with a set of Continental Top Tour in the end, to begin with, which were replaced with whatever was handy while I was away. Maybe I'll give Schwalbes another go.
The Sun Rhyno's were recommended to me by Hewitt at the time - he said they were the strongest on the market. Seems he was right - they're stronger than an XT Hub! But yes, that does seem to be his opinion having looked at the damage - I quote: "If (the Sun Rhyno Rim) has contributed to the hub failure, it has maybe done so due to the rigidity and weight of the rim, there is very little give in anything and the wheel would fail at the weakest point ie. in this case the hub." I'll stick an image of the hub on this post, as people seem to be interested.
Will also look at pumps - thanks for the recommendations.
Thanks all - good to see this place is still lively (been dormant for a while).
Interesting comments - Paul Hewitt actually recommended Rigida Sputniks as an alternative this time. I think I might try them, with an XT hub again, and go for a larger tyre - 38 or maybe 42. Seven responses and no one has yet to come out with the '26" wheel is much stronger' response - I'm impressed!
Seems Schwalbe tyres are still the go to for durability - I bought a set of Marathon Plus just before I left for the long tour, on the back of everyone's comments, and couldn't get them on my rims - nor could the LBS! Stuck with a set of Continental Top Tour in the end, to begin with, which were replaced with whatever was handy while I was away. Maybe I'll give Schwalbes another go.
The Sun Rhyno's were recommended to me by Hewitt at the time - he said they were the strongest on the market. Seems he was right - they're stronger than an XT Hub! But yes, that does seem to be his opinion having looked at the damage - I quote: "If (the Sun Rhyno Rim) has contributed to the hub failure, it has maybe done so due to the rigidity and weight of the rim, there is very little give in anything and the wheel would fail at the weakest point ie. in this case the hub." I'll stick an image of the hub on this post, as people seem to be interested.
Will also look at pumps - thanks for the recommendations.
Interesting comments - Paul Hewitt actually recommended Rigida Sputniks as an alternative this time. I think I might try them, with an XT hub again, and go for a larger tyre - 38 or maybe 42. Seven responses and no one has yet to come out with the '26" wheel is much stronger' response - I'm impressed!
Seems Schwalbe tyres are still the go to for durability - I bought a set of Marathon Plus just before I left for the long tour, on the back of everyone's comments, and couldn't get them on my rims - nor could the LBS! Stuck with a set of Continental Top Tour in the end, to begin with, which were replaced with whatever was handy while I was away. Maybe I'll give Schwalbes another go.
The Sun Rhyno's were recommended to me by Hewitt at the time - he said they were the strongest on the market. Seems he was right - they're stronger than an XT Hub! But yes, that does seem to be his opinion having looked at the damage - I quote: "If (the Sun Rhyno Rim) has contributed to the hub failure, it has maybe done so due to the rigidity and weight of the rim, there is very little give in anything and the wheel would fail at the weakest point ie. in this case the hub." I'll stick an image of the hub on this post, as people seem to be interested.
Will also look at pumps - thanks for the recommendations.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
I vote for a duff hub.
The only way I see that a stronger rim would give a problem is if the wheelbuilder takes advantage of the extra rim strength to tension the spokes more than he would on a normal rim. I know Jobst Brandt has recommended tensioning the spokes until the rim is about to pringle and then backing off a little, but I'd be surprised if Paul Hewitt built like that.
When a wheel is loaded, the bottom of the rim gets flattened slightly, reducing tension on the lower spokes. The top spokes are under the same tension as they were in the unloaded wheel, and it's the difference in tension that supports the load. Note that loading the wheel reduces spoke tension.
If the rim is a flexible one, it will only be the tension on the spokes within a couple of inches of the bottom that changes. If the rim is a stiff one, spokes further from the bottom will have a reduced tension. This could affect more spokes, or you could just have the spokes further apart. The best way to make a rim stiffer is to make it taller and more "aero", not to make a rim of the same shape with thicker walls. I've never heard tell of any epidemic of hub failures in people using semi aero rims (real aero being 50mm or more high).
The only way I see that a stronger rim would give a problem is if the wheelbuilder takes advantage of the extra rim strength to tension the spokes more than he would on a normal rim. I know Jobst Brandt has recommended tensioning the spokes until the rim is about to pringle and then backing off a little, but I'd be surprised if Paul Hewitt built like that.
When a wheel is loaded, the bottom of the rim gets flattened slightly, reducing tension on the lower spokes. The top spokes are under the same tension as they were in the unloaded wheel, and it's the difference in tension that supports the load. Note that loading the wheel reduces spoke tension.
If the rim is a flexible one, it will only be the tension on the spokes within a couple of inches of the bottom that changes. If the rim is a stiff one, spokes further from the bottom will have a reduced tension. This could affect more spokes, or you could just have the spokes further apart. The best way to make a rim stiffer is to make it taller and more "aero", not to make a rim of the same shape with thicker walls. I've never heard tell of any epidemic of hub failures in people using semi aero rims (real aero being 50mm or more high).
yashicamat
New Member
- Location
- Macclesfield, Cheshire
rich p said:Another vote for Topeak Mini Morph. I can get up to 100 psi without too much sweat on 700 x 23s.
My tourer has 700 x 38s and I haven't had an issue with them. They're Conti something or other, very comfortable and still looking good after circa 3,500m
Probably Continental Travel Contacts, I have the same 700 x 37mm (I am 99% sure they're 37mm anyway . . ) on my tourer. Like you say, very comfy. Mine are only 700 miles old but still look brand spanking new.
(apart from the sidewalls being mucky these days 
)
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Percy said:Thanks all - good to see this place is still lively (been dormant for a while).
Interesting comments - Paul Hewitt actually recommended Rigida Sputniks as an alternative this time. I think I might try them, with an XT hub again, and go for a larger tyre - 38 or maybe 42. Seven responses and no one has yet to come out with the '26" wheel is much stronger' response - I'm impressed!
Seems Schwalbe tyres are still the go to for durability - I bought a set of Marathon Plus just before I left for the long tour, on the back of everyone's comments, and couldn't get them on my rims - nor could the LBS! Stuck with a set of Continental Top Tour in the end, to begin with, which were replaced with whatever was handy while I was away. Maybe I'll give Schwalbes another go.
The Sun Rhyno's were recommended to me by Hewitt at the time - he said they were the strongest on the market. Seems he was right - they're stronger than an XT Hub! But yes, that does seem to be his opinion having looked at the damage - I quote: "If (the Sun Rhyno Rim) has contributed to the hub failure, it has maybe done so due to the rigidity and weight of the rim, there is very little give in anything and the wheel would fail at the weakest point ie. in this case the hub." I'll stick an image of the hub on this post, as people seem to be interested.
Will also look at pumps - thanks for the recommendations.
Looks like a duff hub. Is it the same age as the rim? If so I would use the same rims as they are ok with a replacement new or different hub.
If you go any wider with your tyres you'll need motorbike tyres
.Plus they will unlikely fit the bike frame.
Crankarm said:Looks like a duff hub. Is it the same age as the rim? If so I would use the same rims as they are ok with a replacement new or different hub.
If you go any wider with your tyres you'll need motorbike tyres
Plus they will unlikely fit the bike frame.
Unfortunately I no longer have the rim, or the broken hub. I left it somewhere in Italy after the local bike shop sorted me out with a replacement, so I could get on the road. Should have kept the rim at least and posted it back/kept it to be rebuilt, with hindsight, but I had other things on my mind at the time and was just happy to have a working wheel. Hey ho.
Yeah, I believe the frame takes a maximum of a 42 tyre. I'm wondering where the pay off comes with loss of roll/ride quality and stability/load benefit with the tyres. Do you actually gain that much from switching to a wider tyre beyond, say, 35mm? I'm sort of inclined to go as wide as I can but then I think I'm probably just being paranoid. My load wasn't excessive before but then it wasn't super light either. Are the wider tyres that much more forgiving?
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
Percy said:
Maybe you are fretting unnecessarily about having a wide tyre. I tour happily on Mavic Open Pro Cd 700C rims 32 and 36H with either Campag Record, Chorus or Shimano XT hubs with 23 or 25C tyres carrying pretty heavy panniers. I also commute on the same 23/25C tyres carrying a lot of shopping from time to time with no probs. Wheels are hand builts. I used to use a 28C tyre on the rear when carrying a heavier weight but haven't used it for some time and haven't suffered any ill effects on my 23C rear. Maybe 25C would be better as I was a little shocked to see that I still had the 23C on the rear when I last cleaned the bike. Must get around to changing it for the 25C, but 37 or 42C no way! All that drag and extra weight ......
.There have been enough reports of XT hubs failing to not be surprised. The 40 hole xt rear hubs (not the tandem one) have a nasty reputation. Anyway, my framebuilder is also very keen on Sputniks for this kind of use. I would go for the widest tyre your frame allows. It gives better grip on rough roads and off road: it is more comfortable, it cushions your bike/ wheels to make them live longer, and there is not necessarily a speed penalty. There will be if you use something horrible like the Marathon Plus, but there will not be with a Marathon Racer (40 mm max), a Panaracer Pasela (37 mm max), or a Vittoria Randonneur Hyper(40 mm max). All three of these are fast tyres that will do very well in the wider sizes. They are also relatively fragile. If you want something stronger and more puncture resistant, get an ordinary Schwalbe Marathon HS368, in many sizes including 42 mm. I changed one of our touring hybrids from 37 mm to 42 mm a while ago. It really improved the ride, and made the bike a much better proposition on gravel roads and the like.
Willem
Willem
Good stuff Willem and Crankarm, thank you both.
If the XT hub has this reputation, it begs the question of what you would use as an alternative? If I'm having a new wheel built with a Sputnik, I might as well consider the hub choice as well, rather than simply returning to the XT.
If the XT hub has this reputation, it begs the question of what you would use as an alternative? If I'm having a new wheel built with a Sputnik, I might as well consider the hub choice as well, rather than simply returning to the XT.
For a normal price: LX with 36 spokes (or an older 36 spoke XT hub). New XT has now followed the Shimano trend towards lighter but more fragile. If you want to really spend it: Phil Wood for ultimate strength and beauty. But that time, however, you might as well buy a new Rohloff bike.
Willem
Willem
Crankarm
Guru
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
The hand built wheel which I have which is Shimano XT 36H is about 18 months old. TBH I haven't ridden the bike much so not much chance to fail and when I have ridden it it's been commuting on rural tarmac roads, so not off road, with 25C tyres. My main bike the Sirrus (pics on the pannier thread) has a Campag Record 8 spd hub 32H circa 1995 which is gorgeously smooth, quiet and effortless to turn.
Are Ambrosia hubs any good for robust touring? Or Hope even? If my XT hub fails then I shan't be buying another for that to fail as well. Phil Wood hubs are really expensive IME.
Are Ambrosia hubs any good for robust touring? Or Hope even? If my XT hub fails then I shan't be buying another for that to fail as well
. Phil Wood hubs are really expensive IME.Percy said:
Erm, what reputation? So far as I know XT hubs have a pretty good reputation - and I can think of more expensive hubs that have had problems (I've seen examples of Rohloff hubs failing too). A 40-hole hub is inevitably going to be weaker simply because of the number of holes - and I think it's a red herring. To be honest I doubt you'd get better than Shimano. A quick check suggests that Shimano XT hubs are heavier then SLX hubs (411g vs 384G). Personally I can't see any reason not to go for XT.
Another vote for Sputnik rims. My rear wheel is a Spa Cycles XT hub/Sputnik rim. It's done 4500 miles loaded touring without any problems. I'm around 16 stone and I was carrying 30-50 pounds of gear depending how much food and water I had. One time I hit a cattle grid in the dark with a bar missing and gave the rear wheel a huge bang but it was still OK. The first half of the tour I had a 700x35 Marathon on the rear, the second half a 700x32 Marathon. I think 32mm is plenty. 35mm maybe if you are doing much mileage on tracks.
The only issue I had with the Sputnik was getting the new Marathon evenly seated. On the front wheel (a DRC ST19 rim) there was no problem. On the rear the tyre seemed a bit loose and wouldn't seat evenly until I padded out the bottom of the rim with extra rim tape. The worn out Marathon had a similar problem. Not sure if the rim I have is slightly smaller and just one of a bad batch sizxe wise or whether Sputnik rims in general are a poor fit with Marathons. I've not read anyone else having the same problem though.
The DRC ST19 is another option for you. It's slightly lighter than the Sputnik. Spa Cycles are using them so they are obviously well rated. I,ve got a rear wheel with a ST19 rim with a years urban commuting on it without issues.
The only issue I had with the Sputnik was getting the new Marathon evenly seated. On the front wheel (a DRC ST19 rim) there was no problem. On the rear the tyre seemed a bit loose and wouldn't seat evenly until I padded out the bottom of the rim with extra rim tape. The worn out Marathon had a similar problem. Not sure if the rim I have is slightly smaller and just one of a bad batch sizxe wise or whether Sputnik rims in general are a poor fit with Marathons. I've not read anyone else having the same problem though.
The DRC ST19 is another option for you. It's slightly lighter than the Sputnik. Spa Cycles are using them so they are obviously well rated. I,ve got a rear wheel with a ST19 rim with a years urban commuting on it without issues.