Winter camping?

[Blue Hills]

Fancy the odd microadventure.

Possibly freecamping (most campsites seem to close by the end of October anyway, if not earlier)

Anyone got any tips for winter camping (or even bivvying).

Am of course prepared for "don't", "just don't".

But once I've recovered from this cold or bug (caught on the tube I reckon rather than cold as such) I do fancy trying it.

 

[Ticktockmy]

Wild camping in England and Wales is generally only legal with the prior permission of the landowner, but a polite request is unlikely to be turned down in most cases. However, it is generally recognised that making such a request is not always practical, particularly in more remote areas, and wild campers tend to be tolerated if they are out of sight, far from any livestock, do not build open fires, are not in large groups, respect their environment, stay for one night only Camp late, leave early leave no mess, bury any pooh and burn the toiet paper. Try not to use National trust land or English heritage land as they are covered by bylaws. I find no trouble wild camping here in the South of England, I just make sure that I am tucked out of sight normally behind a hedge or dip in the ground, mind I use either a Green tent or mostly my camerflaged Tarp.

 

[Blue Hills]

yes i do all that - have wildcamped a bit - in tents and bivvies - just not in winter.
Would not hesitate to use NT land whilst following all above rules - was a member for years, gave them lots of money, left over the foxhunting issue.
I stress that I am a responsible leave-no-trace camper.
Any specific cold weather tips folks?

 

[Heltor Chasca]

Get dressed into your night gear as soon as you get off the bike. Going to bed cold is not a good look.

Keep the tent/bivvy and sleeping system separate when packing up. A wet bed is not a good look.

If staying in campsites don’t shower. They are never warm enough. Being clean but cold is not a good look.

In fact there are some cracking winter deals on B&Bs. That’s a good look.

 

[classic33]

Is it the colder weather or the possibility of snow that bothers you?

If you're using gas for cooking, can your stove/burner use any of the gas mixes "designed for colder weather"? Either way, consider keeping one in the sleeping bag. Using meths, don't add as much water to it.

Whichever fuel you use, consider a liner for the containers/bottles. An old sock is as good as one bought for the purpose.

 

[andrew_s]

Mountaineer/hillwalking types camp & bivvy in the winter quite commonly, so it's perfectly possible.

Points to bear in mind:
Locations that are suitably discreet in the summer may well not be so in the winter, when there aren't any leaves on the trees & bushes to hide you from view.

It's a lot easier to stay warm than it is to warm up once you've got cold. You'll want a warm jacket, to put it on early (before putting the tent up), and to get in or partly in the sleeping bag early rather than sitting around outside. That would include cooking from the sleeping bag in the tent porch area. If you do chill off, it could be worth going for a 15 minute run to warm up before going to sleep.

Warmer clothing, and a warmer sleeping bag, will mean that more pannier space is required than would be the case in summer.
In terms of sleeping bags, extra layers of clothing worn inside a sleeping bag doesn't add as much extra warmth as you might expect, as the extra internal bulk compresses the sleeping bag insulation from inside, reducing its effectiveness.

You'll probably get more condensation on the outer than you do in summer. I take a j-cloth or similar for wipe and wring condensation removal prior to striking the tent.

Cooking:
As noted above, summer methods don't necessarily work well.
Meths can be awkward to light when it's cold, so it's worth keeping a fuel bottle in an inside pocket, or with you in your sleeping bag. This can be a small supplementary bottle, big enough for the next meal only, and topped up from the main bottle.
Gas:
This comes in various mixes that will allow use in conditions as cold as you are likely to want to camp in. The best I've come across in Primus Power Gas (red), which is an iso-butane (-12°) and propane (-42°) mix
However, if your stove uses the canister in the normal upright position, the gases in the mix with the lower boiling point (propane) get used faster than those with the higher boiling point (butane). This will mean that a canister that was fine when new no longer works adequately (or even at all) when part used. With a standard Coleman 70/30 butane-propane mix, and temperatures around zero to +5°, that may mean it's impossible to use very much more than half the gas in the canister without resorting to heating up the canister. Inside the sleeping bag will work for breakfast, but you can't carry the canister inside your clothes whilst riding.
A further point is that the gas going to the burner takes heat with it, cooling the remaining liquid gas. This means that any attempt to insulate the gas canister will make matters worse, rather than helping.
For weekend trips, you'll be unlikely to get far enough down a new canister for the above to be a problem, but if you do many trips, you may build up a stock of part-used canisters for the following summer.

If you end up doing a lot of winter camping (or even the cooler parts of spring and autumn), you will be better off with a stove that's designed to be used with the canister upside down. This means that the gas going to the burner is of the same proportions as in the liquid gas, so the proportions don't change, and that there's no evaporative cooling of the liquid gas, so you get full gas pressure right to the end of the canister.
Such stoves include the MSR Windpro 2 and the Optimus Vega. Other stoves with hose fed burners that have a metal preheat pipe passing through the flame can also be used, but you'll have to bodge balancing the canister on its top, possibly making valve access awkward, and you may find that fine control of the flame is a bit lacking.

For bivvying, a small tarp will be useful as a wind break.
Also, should you get the weather forecast wrong and have to set up your bivvy in the rain, a tarp or some form of additional shelter is good to have. If it is raining much, and you've no shelter beyond a field wall, it's difficult to get yourself inside a sleeping bag inside the bivvy bag without getting the sleeping bag or yourself wetter than is ideal DAHIKT.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Well, @andrew_s has given a lot of useful detail.

I'd disagree with @Heltor Chasca about showers. I think they're a great way to warm up.

I enjoy winter camping but the biggest issue I find is the lack of daylight. I'm not a fan of cycling in the dark. Winter camping is about the only time I plan a route and actually stick to it. So my advice is to know where you're going and have a backup plan just in case.

In the same vein, something to keep you amused on the longer nights. A Kindle is invaluable. Or podcasts on your phone.

I also tend to cycle slower in the cold, so keep that in mind when planning how long it will take if you are similar.

I carry a flask as a part of my cooking gear. Very handy for having a warm drink inside the tent with none of the faff of lighting a stove (I'll fill it after cooking dinner).

I've used my trangia at well below zero with the winter attachment. A bit fiddly to get the hang of, but it works. I've also seen people use a tissue paper "fuse" to light the method. Can't vouch for it personally.

I have an insulated water bottle. I've used it a couple of times with hot (not boiling) water as a hot water bottle.

A pee bottle saves leaving the tent in the middle of the night. Make sure you fasten it properly 😀

Fresh (wool) clothes for when all outdoor chores are done, especially socks. Never skimp on socks! For really cold weather a wooly hat, balaclava or something similar.
Consider a foil emergency blanket under your sleeping pad to boost insulation.

If the ground is wet I'll put on my rain pants to pitch the tent. It stops whatever else I'm wearing getting wet or muddy.

There are liners available to boost sleeping bags. I used to have a Merino wool one. Very effective, but not durable. If you're likely to exceed your comfort level for your sleeping bag consider a second bag instead of a liner. Probably cheaper.

Jumping jacks or something similar if you get too cold.

Condensation is the big issue in winter camping. Wiping the fly is well and good if you can easily remove the inner. If not, a footprint covering vestibule space can help, as will as much ventilation as you can stand.

Long, cold days on the bike can be improved with tinfoil around your toes.

Merino glove liners can be a big help against cold hands, especially if wet and cold.

Throw your cycling clothes in the sleeping bag with you (unless wet), they'll be nicer to put on in the morning.

Packing is best done slowly and carefully. You don't want any dampness transferring, especially if there was condensation.

I find cold mornings the hardest part of winter camping! My sleeping bag is just so cosy! 😀

Enjoy!

 

[Vantage]

I've yet to find a cold campsite shower, all the ones I've used so far have been perfectly warm.
I've found that camping & caravanning club certificated sites tend to be open all year round. Usually restricted to members only, but as a cyclist they can't really turn you down. They're usually very small sites and limited to 5 pitches and almost always are working farms. Basic facilities but that's a plus point for me. None of that blingy, tourist park type crap.
A warm sleeping bag. I can't stress this enough. The 2 nights I had in Delamere last year were not nice at all and my bag is rated to 0* limit. Go for a -10 or more bag. As Hobbes, it may be worth using two bags together to increase warmth. I also employ the foil emergency blanket technique between mat and bag. It works wonders.
There was a fairly lengthy discussion on that other forum (the one filled with stuck up snotty old farts) on whether wearing pj's to bed added warmth or not. One view was that they helped keep in body heat and the other was that because the body was heating the clothes, it wasn't heating the bag which then failed to do it's job. I was wrapped up like a mummy on the Delamere trip and still froze my nipples off but the only time I've done it the other way has been with the missus and mutual body heat kept us warm so no real experience on going commando on my lonesome.
Stoves...if memory serves when I bought the tent from you, you have plenty.
My little £5 Chinese stove which I bought in 2012 is still going well and even the piezo lighter thingybob still works and I haven't really had many issues with it working in real cold. It did start spluttering a bit but giving the canister a bit of a shake soon sorted that temporarily. I have however recently invested in a hosed stove with a preheat tube...and it didn't cost the earth like certain other branded stoves. It doesn't have a piezo lighter but I have used one of those firesteel things and so far haven't blown myself up.

 

[Blue Hills]

Get dressed into your night gear as soon as you get off the bike. Going to bed cold is not a good look.

Keep the tent/bivvy and sleeping system separate when packing up. A wet bed is not a good look.

If staying in campsites don’t shower. They are never warm enough. Being clean but cold is not a good look.

In fact there are some cracking winter deals on B&Bs. That’s a good look.

Ta for tips - will pass on the shower tip though - I like to be clean - and showers are the main reason for using a campsite are they not? Otherwise you may as well just freecamp.

 

[Blue Hills]

I've used my trangia at well below zero with the winter attachment. A bit fiddly to get the hang of, but it works.

I have a Trangia - understand that it reacts better to cold than some gas set-ups. What's the winter attachment Hobbes? What does it do?

 

[Baldy]

In winter insulation from the ground is far more important than in summer. Get a cheap foam mat and put it under whatever mat you have. Wear a hat to sleep in and try not to put your face in your sleeping bag. Because your breath will make your bag damp.

 

[MichaelW2]

Mud can be an issue. A foam sitmat is useful. In summer Ive used sandals around campsites and carried on using them into October. A low cut Wellington boot or shoe may be more practical.

 

[Blue Hills]

Mud can be an issue. A foam sitmat is useful. In summer Ive used sandals around campsites and carried on using them into October. A low cut Wellington boot or shoe may be more practical.

I have some neoprene bootee things for that.
From those wonderful folk at Lomo Watersports.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I have a Trangia - understand that it reacts better to cold than some gas set-ups. What's the winter attachment Hobbes? What does it do?

https://shop.trangia.se/en/accessories/winter-attachment.html

It sits under the burner. Drop meths onto the material, light it, let that flame warm the burner, then light the burner.
It slides up when not in use.

I didn't want the plate to sit underneath. Tricky to find without a burner though.

 

[Blue Hills]

Thanks Hobbes - I think I can live without thhat - seems to be expensive and out of stock anyway.

The Trangia can be used as normal a bit below freezing can't it?

I must say I won't be using anything combustible inside a tent or awning - am dead set against that.