srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
Yes there is - and it's what I was trying. But it takes two to tango. @classic33 wasn't playing.
Woman cyclist killed in Victoria (tipper truck)
- Thread starter vickster
- Start date
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slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
I don't understand why side guards are put forward as a major expense. What does a "dogs danglies" sheet of 18mm Finnish Birch ply cost these days? £100? You probably only need one sheet cut lengthwise to cover both sides of a tipper truck. Fixing the sheets is the work of about 45 minutes to a motivated Polish builder with an 18 volt drill and a pocketful of long self-tapping screws. It really isn't a big deal. If it grounds on a construction site and gets bashed up, stick on another.
glenn forger
Guest
Boris Johnson's party benefits from large donations from the road freight and construction injuries. The last time there was a spate od cyclists' deaths involving lorries Boris decried the cyclists' habit of wearing earphones, despite earphones not being implicated in a single death. Now, after some reflection, he has a new idea. Wave your arms like Simon Rattle:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e-london-mayor-boris-johnson#comment-48351231
That's Boris's idea to save cyclists. He can't bring himself to even mention his own evidence of the rampant lawlessness among hauliers.
Mary Bowers was in an ASL box, waiting at the lights, where she was supposed to be. The lorry driver behind her failed to notice and rolled over her effectively ending her life:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 631594.ece
It was the same with Sebastien Lukomski, waiting at the lights, doing nothing wrong, killed by a tipper driver who failed to notice him:
http://ralphsmyth.me.uk/citycyclists/seb.html
Both cyclists doing NOTHING wrong, yet were killed by lorry drivers who weren't paying attention. Don't forget to wave your arms.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...e-london-mayor-boris-johnson#comment-48351231
That's Boris's idea to save cyclists. He can't bring himself to even mention his own evidence of the rampant lawlessness among hauliers.
Mary Bowers was in an ASL box, waiting at the lights, where she was supposed to be. The lorry driver behind her failed to notice and rolled over her effectively ending her life:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cy ... 631594.ece
It was the same with Sebastien Lukomski, waiting at the lights, doing nothing wrong, killed by a tipper driver who failed to notice him:
http://ralphsmyth.me.uk/citycyclists/seb.html
Both cyclists doing NOTHING wrong, yet were killed by lorry drivers who weren't paying attention. Don't forget to wave your arms.
Origamist
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 3569182, member: 9609"]Sadly I doubt any of those changes will make any notable differences to the current unacceptable cyclist / lorry situation. And I will be surprised if any regular driver thinks otherwise. But I do hope you are right. Sad so little is being done so far in the future.[/QUOTE]
I think you are underestimating the benefits of greatly improved “direct vision” from the cab – this is a major change in HGV design as it provides much better visibility to the front and front left (or right in Europe) of the cab. This is where the majority of cyclist/HGV fatalities occur. What’s more, it’s not just about cyclists – these changes will benefit pedestrians, motorcyclists, and drivers. Road danger from HGVs will be reduced, but certainly not eliminated.
I think you are underestimating the benefits of greatly improved “direct vision” from the cab – this is a major change in HGV design as it provides much better visibility to the front and front left (or right in Europe) of the cab. This is where the majority of cyclist/HGV fatalities occur. What’s more, it’s not just about cyclists – these changes will benefit pedestrians, motorcyclists, and drivers. Road danger from HGVs will be reduced, but certainly not eliminated.
Origamist
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 3569710, member: 9609"]Obviously - but that is not what I meant. how much experience do you have of driving the current vehicles ?[/QUOTE]
As previously mentioned up thread: none whatsoever, but we're discussing future developments, not the current state of poor direct visibility and compromised cab shape.
I'm struggling to understand why you believe the improved cab design will not, 'notably' help the driver and save lives as a result? Could you elaborate?
As previously mentioned up thread: none whatsoever, but we're discussing future developments, not the current state of poor direct visibility and compromised cab shape.
I'm struggling to understand why you believe the improved cab design will not, 'notably' help the driver and save lives as a result? Could you elaborate?
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Does any evidence exist showing how many of these sorts of incidents are caused by the cyclist going up the inside of a left turning vehicle, and how many caused by a driver left hookng the cyclist?
I see a lot of comments about how it's the cyclist's fault for putting themselves in that position, but very little evidence to show how frequently that is the case.
Given that we already know that overall the motorist is solely to blame in the majority of cyclist-motorist collisions, I simply find it hard to accept that there is something about HGVs that means cyclists have an uncontrollable urge to throw themselves under the wheels.
In any case, even if it usually the fault of the cyclist, that doesn't mean we should shy away from real safety improvements, which could come from road design, physical separation at junctions, better vehicle design, cyclist and motorist training and information campaigns, etc.
I see a lot of comments about how it's the cyclist's fault for putting themselves in that position, but very little evidence to show how frequently that is the case.
Given that we already know that overall the motorist is solely to blame in the majority of cyclist-motorist collisions, I simply find it hard to accept that there is something about HGVs that means cyclists have an uncontrollable urge to throw themselves under the wheels.
In any case, even if it usually the fault of the cyclist, that doesn't mean we should shy away from real safety improvements, which could come from road design, physical separation at junctions, better vehicle design, cyclist and motorist training and information campaigns, etc.
With that engineering insight, you will be snapped by VOSA.
Origamist
Legendary Member
They are hand-picked from contributors with 10000 or more posts CC's Society, Culture and Politics sub forum...
Quite right, too.[QUOTE 3570257, member: 45"]https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/independent-front-page-story-on-cycle-deaths.74982/page-3[/QUOTE]
Great, thanks
Great, thanks
[QUOTE 3569193, member: 9609"]As for the side underun protection, the solution is really simple - make it a condition of the planning consent for any project that all vehicles entering must be fitted with them, the builders and the hauliers will soon come up with a solution no matter what the cost.[/QUOTE]
That system is already in place, FORS registration which comes in 3 categories (Gold, Silver and Bronze) which many building sites now insist hauliers must be part of so more and more haulage companies are becoming registered.
I am in the industry and it was refreshing that in the tender stage of a quote that we did this week not only was FORS bronze a minimum requirement, but also that all drivers must have attended a cycle awareness course before they would be allowed on site..
That system is already in place, FORS registration which comes in 3 categories (Gold, Silver and Bronze) which many building sites now insist hauliers must be part of so more and more haulage companies are becoming registered.
I am in the industry and it was refreshing that in the tender stage of a quote that we did this week not only was FORS bronze a minimum requirement, but also that all drivers must have attended a cycle awareness course before they would be allowed on site..
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